Peak Oil News

 

  Login or Register
 
Menu
 News
 Search
 Topics
 Stories Archive
 Submit News
 Discussions
 Code of Conduct
 Forums
 Forums Search
 Last 24 Hours
 PO 24hrs
 Peak Blog
 Resources
 About Us
 Downloads
 Web Links
 PeakWiki
 PeakPortal
 Focus Search
 Peak TV
 Peak Oil Boston
 Members
 Your Account
 Members List
 Ignore List
 JOIN!
 Private Messages
 
google
 
PeakSpeak
NICKNAME

Download TeamSpeak
What is PeakSpeak?
Peak Oil on IRC
 
Photo Album
Submit Photo
Peakoil.com is You!


member photos
 
Light Sweet Crude Oil
 
Member Quotes
I want my mommy!

Buggy

Suggest Quote

 
aspo08
 
ICM
Cisco & Net App Training
 
Peak Oil News: Forums

Peakoil.com :: View topic - US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why?
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly version    Peakoil.com Forum Index -> Current Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
deconstructionist
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude


Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 446
Location: Salem, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Read this on my blog, with links to sources.

In the days before hurricaines Katrina and Rita crippled US oil production and refining capacity, a gallon of regular unleaded was $2.55 at my local gas station. That soared as high as $3.29 before beginning a slow and somewhat steady decline to its current level--$2.19. Pretty good, pretty cheap, all things considered.

I would assume that few people have stopped and thought about exactly why gas and crude oil prices are on the decline. They probably assume that with all of the whining about price gouging--gasoline retailers and oil companies got the message. Or they might not even care to think about it at all, since the hundreds of miles they drive per week just got a whole lot cheaper. Well, here's something you may or may not have known: On September 2nd, the IEA (International Energy Agency) decided to release 2 million barrels per day of crude oil and "refined product" from Europe's strategic reserve to the American market.



These are wholesale prices--so taxes and such are not included. See the huge drop in prices towards the beginning of September and the mostly steady decline since then? The small upward curve represents the effects of hurricane Rita. But otherwise prices are going down, down, and down since September 2 when this 2 mbpd was released from the European reserve. What do you think is going to happen when the 2 mbpd stops?

Well, we're going to find out. The IEA has not posted the announcement on their Web site yet, but they recently declared that the 2 million barrels per day from Europe will indeed stop. "Not because they are hateful meanies, but because, after all, it is Europe's strategic reserve and they can't sell it all to us because, well, some strategic emergency might come up for them, too." (quote from linked source). There will be a 1-2 week period where shipments that were in transit or supplies that were already earmarked for shipment get delivered and such... But after that, we will most likely face supply shortages--just in time for the winter heating season. Yes, we can take 2 mbpd out of our own strategic reserves for a while--but aside from a reletively tiny 2 million barrel Northeast Home Heating Oil reserve, US reserves do not include refined products. So that doesn't really help us where refinery capacities are an issue.

I'm sure that there are good people thinking about this problem and devising a way around it... While I'm sure the rest of the world would like us to stop using 25% of the world's oil resrouces while we only produce 5%, nobody in the American government wants Americans to have to deal with shortages and rising prices. So there is no doubt some movement to mitigate the effects of this recent announcement by the IEA. Interesting though that information about all of this is very difficult to come by. You really have to be a news-hound or you have to be searching for it.

In any case, don't be surprised if by December we see gasoline, crude oil, and heating fuel costs begin to rise again as the 2 million barrels per day from the European reserve are removed from circulation. Fill your tanks now... And please don't blame oil companies or the government--blame the culture of comfort and consumption that we are slaves to...
_________________
UNLESS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
BabyPeanut
Fusion
Fusion


Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 3541
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

SIGH,

Please my most recent rendition of my "it's the imports"

http://www.livejournal.com/community/peak_oil/230307.html

It's loaded with charts linked to their TWIP pages. Putting the charts in the right order is very telling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BabyPeanut
Fusion
Fusion


Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 3541
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

deconstructionist wrote:
Well, we're going to find out. The IEA has not posted the announcement on their Web site yet, but they recently declared that the 2 million barrels per day from Europe will indeed stop. "Not because they are hateful meanies, but because, after all, it is Europe's strategic reserve and they can't sell it all to us because, well, some strategic emergency might come up for them, too." (quote from linked source).

OUCH OUCH! please make it stop.

You are quoting Kunstler. http://kunstler.com/mags_diary15.html
Quote:
Now, the important part of all this is that last week the International Energy Agency (IEA), Europe's energy security watchdog, declared that it would now end the 2 million barrel a day shipments to the US. Not because they are hateful meanies, but because, after all, it is Europe's strategic reserve and they can't sell it all to us because, well, some strategic emergency might come up for them, too.

Where did he get that factoid?

Do you have one shred of evidence that they are going to stop other than Kunstler's rumor?

I have these:
Quote:
The governing board of the IEA reviewed the global oil supply situation and the stock draw announced last month, and said it remains prepared to take "additional coordinated action" to address future shortages if needed. (link)


Quote:
Oil release to be extended again (link)
Japan will extend for a third month the release of oil reserves held by the private sector in a coordinated effort by members of the International Energy Agency to hold down prices, the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry said Friday.


Last edited by BabyPeanut on Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Atlantean_Relic
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 828
Location: North of Id, west of Oz, and infront of the damned rabbit

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Gas is $2.02 here in Louisiana
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aahala
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 954

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

How do we know the transfer rate was 2mbd, when it
actually started, or if it might not have ended two weeks ago?

The 9/2 EIA press release said they would make available
2mbd for 30 days.

The 10/20 announcement said they voted to complete the
remaining 60 million commitment. It was silient on the rate that
had actually occurred, how much had been used or how much
remained.

It's odd too unless the 2mpb transfer didn't start until at least 18
days after the first announcement. The second announcement would
have been unneccessary as the 60 would have been completed otherwise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BabyPeanut
Fusion
Fusion


Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 3541
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Does the US still need IEA imported stockpile loans?

(clickable)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BabyPeanut
Fusion
Fusion


Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 3541
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Well, maybe it does for diesel/heating oil (distallates)

(clickable)



(clickable)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deconstructionist
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude


Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 446
Location: Salem, MA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:

OUCH OUCH! please make it stop.

You are quoting Kunstler. http://kunstler.com/mags_diary15.html

yes i'm aware of the source. i've linked to the above article on my blog (link to my blog at the top of this thread). i've asked Kunstler to substantiate the information since the IEA has not mentioned it on their web site. no reply from him yet.
_________________
UNLESS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
AlCzervik
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude


Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Posts: 396
Location: The Motor City

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

This article is subscription only right now, but Ruppert is on the same page as Kunstler about the IEA discontinuing the imports. Again, there is no substantiation on that issue.

Quote:
I thought of the callous, willful and even criminal dishonesty with which the media continues to reassure us after Katrina and Rita that everything is OK because gasoline prices are falling and crude oil prices are slipping. They, and the American government, neglect to tell us that this is only because we are in the merciful season when both air conditioners and heaters are turned off; when driving vacations have ended. They neglect to tell us that prices are low because the US is tapping a now impossible-to-refill strategic petroleum reserve of only 700 million barrels and receiving 800,000 barrels a day of mostly refined gasoline from the 22 member countries of the International Energy Agency (IEA). They aren’t telling us that our refining capacity is still heavily damaged and our production capacity is hobbled. They neglect to tell us that 108 offshore rigs and a still undisclosed number of pipelines constituting about 75% of American natural gas production and sixty per cent of our domestic oil production are shut in for between six months and three years (under the best of circumstances). They neglect to tell us that IEA energy “loans” will end forever with the first cold snaps of winter.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110805_escape_cancun_summary.shtml
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DantesPeak
Expert
Expert


Joined: Oct 23, 2004
Posts: 5909
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I think all someone has to do is to review the incremental imports over the last few months and subtract them from the 40 m barrels coming from outside the US, then the remainder is what's left to ship. The IEA is only allowing a 90 day, window too, which means the end will come by the end of November in any case.

My rough calculation is that we are very close to the end of the extra imports already. So I don't think Kunstler is too far out of line.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HonestPessimist
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude


Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I expect the oil price would quadruple to $100 per barrel by the end of this year or early 2006. Goldman Sachs warned last summer of "$105 per barrel" toward the end of 2005.

The plan's still on. The "warmer weather" prediction in 2006 is a temporary distraction to alleviate oil market concerns for the past few weeks, forcing the oil producers to go slow with the outputs this time.

Soon, it would be a big mistake. Just wait.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
No-Oil
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude


Joined: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 243
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

The oil price & thus gas has fallen, because both the European & US SPR's are being consumed, thus knocking approx 4mbpd off world demand. At the same time, neither the European SPR (which was full) or the US SPR are being bought for, thus knocking an unspecified amount off the teh world demand.

Most of the Gulf oil & gas supply damage is still locked in, thus it will be a while before this can contribute to world production again. Meanwhile, when the taps are turned off on the US & European SPR's, the price will rise rapdily & this will be further fueled by the increased demand for oil to refill the SPR's!

The US has said it intends to increase its SPR from 750Mb, to 1Billion Barrels, the UK & some other EU countries are looking at increasing their SPR due to North Sea production declines. China is about to embark on filling their SPR in 2006, so expect a major price hike during 2006 ! Unless demand destruction kicks in big time, the price will soar & the worlds economies will plummet !
_________________
The roller coaster is still climbing, but it's near the top now !
Where there's a WAR there's a WAY Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TITAN
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 500
Location: New Northwest Union

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

No-Oil wrote:


Most of the Gulf oil & gas supply damage is still locked in, thus it will be a while before this can contribute to world production again.




Actually, as of Nov. 10th, 49% of crude and 40% of nat gas is still shut in the gulf. So I wouldn't say 'most' of it is still locked in...SHUT IN REPORT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
No-Oil
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude


Joined: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 243
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Thanks for the update Titan. That means there is less to come back online in the future, which means that the price hike will likely be more severe than I anticipated ! Bummer Sad
_________________
The roller coaster is still climbing, but it's near the top now !
Where there's a WAR there's a WAY Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
grabby
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Nov 08, 2005
Posts: 1328

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: US Gasoline prices going down... for now... why? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

There were no sudden finds or increases in reserves.
But there were congresional hearings.


Last edited by grabby on Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly version    Peakoil.com Forum Index -> Current Events All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Atom News FeedRSS 1.0 News FeedRSS 2.0 News FeedRSS Forums Feed