Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysis
The Cato Institute, a Libertarian think tank, takes on peak oil and government regulations involved in the petroleum extraction, refining, and distribution industries.
Energy Alarmism: The Myths That Make Americans Worry about Oil LINK
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 294 Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi
Thats one of the most delusional analyses I've read for a while. No need to have troops in the Middle East to keep the oil flowing, or threaten anyone who dares to challenge the petrodollar.... The comment that really caught my attention is that peak oil is definitely not here, as past experience apparently shows that market forces have always ensured adequate supply. Unfortunately for them peak means a whole change to that state of affairs. Even though I was fervently against the war in Iraq, these misguided antiwar groups who think oil demand will just magically be met and that our way of life is non-negotiable almost piss me off more than honest pro-war crowd.
Another great example of how extrapolating from historical experience combined with blind faith in infinite growth economics leads to flawed conclusions.
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi
They're idiots, but unfortunately some rightwingers spout their thinking from time to time, reinforcing their idiocy.
I'll read the main document a little later, but given their track record, Im not holding out much hope for them. _________________ UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com
Joined: Sep 30, 2005 Posts: 438 Location: Baltimore County, Md
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi
idiots ? delusional ?
that is probably the most compelling (albeit left handed) indictment of us foreign policy of the last 50 years that i have ever read.
cato rarely produces crap. if you are looking for self reinforcing feedback for your pre-conceived ideological or geological notions, then im sure you were disappointed.
where i think cato has underestimated 'peak oil' is in the assumptions of world economic growth and the 'new' production needed to satisfy this demand. this is a non linear problem in that not meeting these economic goals by even a little bit will have a huge, asymetric impact on the world economy.
but, the main point of the piece is that US foreign policy is a Fark and counterproductive to the energy security it claims as it's central premis. pretty much undeniable, doncha think ?
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi
I haven't read their argument yet, and I doubt the first two posters did either. I'm going to read it this weekend. I can say this, Cato will always approach any issue from the small government "keep your hands off my property" stand point. They will call out any type of central planning entity every time and blame its interference on whatever problems might arise. Most of the scholars/policy wonks/media personalities at Cato aren't "anti-war" per say, they simply see war as a means to an end in regards to state power, as well as an interference on people's personal lives. Natural law is what it is, 0 interference.
I would agree a lot of what they say, albeit sensible, is not very realistic when you look at how the modern capitalist state really works. As any Marxist would argue; Capitalism will consume until there is nothing left to consume. That's how Capitalism works. Combine that with a socially conservative culture that doesn't change very much and bam. I can see why some people are freaked out by oil depletion due to a unsustainable lifestyles that everyone and the mother wants. Now the Chinese and Indians want it too...
I guess it's time to go nuk-lear as G. Bush would say...
Joined: Jan 24, 2007 Posts: 185 Location: Pacific NW USA
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi
Here's my favorite quote:
Cato Wingnuts wrote:
Geologic features determine the location and quantity of oil deposits, but they do not determine "oil supply" in any meaningful sense.
It's all so simple: we don't need middle eastern oil with all the nasty geopolitical ramifications. Market forces will trump geology and allow profitable oil production in friendlier places!
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Cato Institute's new "Energy Alarmism" analysi
NWMossBack wrote:
Here's my favorite quote:
Cato Wingnuts wrote:
Geologic features determine the location and quantity of oil deposits, but they do not determine "oil supply" in any meaningful sense.
It's all so simple: we don't need middle eastern oil with all the nasty geopolitical ramifications. Market forces will trump geology and allow profitable oil production in friendlier places!
Of course not everyone knows that. Why? Because of the magical self regulating nature of market forces. The mystical invisible hand.
When xyz commodity became to expensive companies adapt and find ways of using less, something else or going without.
The going without part (demand destruction due to skyrocketing prices) is reserved for the poor masses. So if there is a food or fuel shortage the people with money say you and me get to eat and drive the people with less money say some farmer in Bangladesh, India or some other 3rd world hell hole gets to tie a rope around their neck and swing from a tree.
It's all very magical and self regulating and based on the "marginal added value" an individual can add to production. _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
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