I will believe the Saudis don't see any upcoming problems with Ghawar when they cancel one of their projects due to low oil prices. If they continue to be full steam ahead with increasing their capacity then I think they are aware that Ghawar may not be as robust in 5 years time as they would like us to believe.
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one.
Chevy Volt Plug in Hybrid cars are to be out in 2010
So what?
Most people can't afford one.
Development Robert Lutz was quoted as saying that the realistic unsubsidised cost had risen to $48K,[9] that he reckoned that $40,000 might be possible, without making any profit, and that only government tax incentives could take the price tag nearer to $30,000. When asked directly GM claimed that this was a misquote, and that Lutz did not know how much it would cost.[10]
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 309 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
People can not close to work because people tend to leave where there is good school district. Most jobs are cluttered around downtown or some urban setting where %90 of the residents are poor and/or minority therefore no good schools.
I think the more the gas goes up, people first move to smaller cars then gas goes more up then people start car pooling, gas goes thry the roof, people start to ride buses. But moving close to work is a MAJOR task for families with kids that won't happen unless gas hits say $20/gal
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Good luck finding any affordable housing within 30 miles of Silicon Valley.
This Chevy Volt is rediculous. They're never going to finish this. Why don't they just beg people to buy their stock instead of promising vapor. _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement, cannibalism, & zombie invasions.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6527 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
ELECTRICITY PRICES ARE ABOUT TO SOAR.
On top of that, can you imagine the effect of millions of Americans "plugging in" their cars?
I received a letter from my electric utility last month warning that it could no longer contain prices and would soon be forced to pass along substantial increases to the public. This is just the beginning of the next big new wave of disaster---electricity price inflation and shortages.
We are still obsessed with the mad notion that we can replace the current vehicle fleet with another one that runs on something else, and basically keep on going the same old way. Won't work. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
It costs a penny a mile. 250 miles per gallon equivalent.
And it's really fun!
I was just driving it around today for the CNN spot that will air Thursday or Friday moning on CNN money. _________________ Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 873 Location: Tustin, CA
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Drifter wrote:
[I realize it's a major task. But nothing is impossible. People complain 'I can't. I can't'. It's not that they can't. They just aren't willing to sacrifice to make the change.
I have to agree with you Drifter. I made this choice myself 10 years ago when I got my current job position. I had been commuting almost 40 miles each way into Orange County California. Orange County is expensive to live in, but not as expensive as commuting the 80 miles round trip each day I was making in the late 90's.
I rent. And even though my rent has almost doubled in the last 10 years, it is now more cost effective to for me to rent and live 2 miles from work. I ride a bicycle nearly everyday to work, and am able to grocery shop with panniers on my bicycle each week as the supermarket is only 1/2 mile away.
The bottom line is; either plan to move close to your work soon, or be forced to do it later! _________________ Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6527 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Well, if we're going to talk about plug-in cars, we had damned well better talk about the future cost of electricity. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Homesteader wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Well, if we're going to talk about plug-in cars, we had damned well better talk about the future cost of electricity.
Oh poo Heineken, you are such a doomer. Stop with the planning for the future, you'll spoil the party.
How's this for spoiling the party:
The Chevy Volt was originally meant to be an electric and also retail for $30K.
This has to be my favorite EV car lie.
How so? There's not a week that goes by where there isn't some type of "amazing" technological announcement made by some small no-name company. Anybody who's been on this site long enough knows exactly what I'm saying.
however....
This has to be the first time a major company has stooped down to such a low level. So I guess this makes it special. My gut tells me GM knew from the very first day that $30K was an impossible price.
It was all a publicity stunt.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6527 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Right, Cube.
I don't believe any of it anymore.
In general, if they're telling us about some wonderful new thing that will save us, it's a lie (or, at best, a mistake).
There is some actual progress happening in the medical arena, but those wonders will be for really rich people only. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Drifter and Heiny,
Thanks for being on the forum. Your balance of Common Sense and Doomerism strikes the right chord for the challenges we are facing. We need to cut the bullshit about certain things take a realistic look at inherent limits in our current system.
It's no longer enough to whine about "having to drive" to work and how "ridiculous" energy prices are. Times have changed and we need to make real choices about how we are going to live in those times.
I have given up many dreams of travelling the world, living in isolated places, having a second home because of how the world has changed. My matra is to Be Where I Am. I can bike to nearly everything worth doing, I have become much more involved in my community (better than any pile of guns and ammo, IMHO), and we are not taking on any new debt.
The Chevy volt violates all of those principles: it's not a bike, it takes me to places out of my community, and would require a huge amount of new debt. Screw that!
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3613 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Here's where GM will trim fat:
Quote:
To help fund its green initiatives, GM also plans to close four truck and SUV plants in North America, which will save the company $1 billion every year.
“Even though the [GM] is burning through $1 billion in cash a month, the R&D budget is the biggest in a decade: $8.1 billion in 2007, up from $6.6 billion the previous year. ([Recently], however, GM said if the economy doesn’t improve, it could be forced to borrow or cut spending.)” according to BusinessWeek.
GM is focused on bringing a whole new family of hybrid cars to its customers, many of them based on the technology currently being developed for the Chevy Volt. It’s a high stakes game with GM desperate to leapfrog ahead of its competitors.
Executives, including Wagoner, have previously said the 2010 timeline would be a "stretch" to meet since GM was rushing to do basic battery-development work at the same time that it engineered a new vehicle from the ground up.
GM is designing the Volt to run for 40 miles powered by a 400-pound lithium-ion battery pack that can be recharged at a standard electric outlet when the vehicle is parked.
Lots of those in mall parking lots. Thanks for the EB link, Heine - hadn't checked them today. Not good! GM're talking 100k production after the 2010 launch, which I assume is still set at 10K for November. Not a viable wedge for peak oil, boys! Remember Tyler fantasizing about rush production of 4 million EVs in one year? I don't think so. Maybe 4 million scooters. And we still have almost a 100 million solo commuters... _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
The Dude Is Not In: Leave A Message After The Beep.
hmm so let me get this straight.
We're about to enter the worst financial crisis since the great depression and
GM's business strategy is to hopefully sell a $48K car in such an environment?
My gut tells me the taxpayers will have to choose who they want to bail out. GM or Ford.
I think America will choose Ford.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3613 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Chevy Volt plug in hybrid...most people can't afford one
Drifter wrote:
Scalability is a killer, ain't it?
The worst.
Ford? GM are tyrannosaurs, Ford are triceratopses. 20 hybrid Escapes out for testing. Got asteroid? _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
The Dude Is Not In: Leave A Message After The Beep.
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