Matt Simmons predicts the next financial meltdown will make what is happening now seem insignificant.....the current economic mess was triggered by peak oil and high oil prices....what is coming will be worse---and will involve massive energy shortages and food shortages.
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
Whether you belive in a hard crash or a soft landing there is no doubt that whatever the outcome it will leave severe economic scars among the lower working classes and lower classes of society which just happens to dispriportionately consist of blacks and hispanics.
All one needs to do is to look at the devestating effects that the loss of high paying manufacturing industry had throughout the rust belt in the USA, particularly Detroit. Unemployment skyrocketed, families became unstable as more and more men abandoned them and or turned to a life of crime to make ends meet, and whole tracts of neighborhoods surrendered to decay, abandonment, and the drug trade.
If the service sector of North America is going to take as bad of a beating as peak oil doomers such as Kunstler predicts, then ALL of us are in a world of hurt no matter what your class status or race is. The only difference is the effects on the poor, those without higher education, and minorities will be 3 to 4 times worse.
I can't help but wonder how we will be able to let go of the superficial prejudices and pull together as a country or even as a global community for that matter if we are all fighting over the last few scraps of resources on the planet.
Kunstler touched upon this subject rather humorously in "The Long Emergency". His witty New York sarcasm left no social group spared from criticism whether it was NASCAR fans, clannish Southerners, Country Music fans, or the Hip Hop community. While I disagreed with his conclusions and perceived a cunning and seething hattred of the American Way of life underlying his writing I give him many browny points for brilliantly touching this sensitive subject of race and PO future.
No doubt, in a hard PO crash there are going to be alot of angry, vocal, and unfortunately some violent protests that the American Dream of a suburban house, two car garage, and a Chevy Suburban parked out in front. Trust me, blacks aren't going to be the only one violently protesting in the streets in this scenario. The blame game will fire up public vocal emnity with conservatives blaming liberals, liberals blaming conservatives, whites blaming blacks, blacks blaming "the man", and whites, blacks, and everybody in between blaming hispanics(for taking jobs) and Muslim countries(for hoarding oil). Hopefully a long protracted soft crash will mitigate these ill social aftershocks.
I want to hope for a bright future and that we will all just hold hands into the post peak oil sunset singing Kumbaya but some of the doomer posts I've seen on the "other PO site" give me grave doubts.
Joined: Oct 11, 2005 Posts: 409 Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
Bitching and rioting are the price of ignorance and a lack of education. Students often ask, "when are we ever going to use this science and math?" I usually have a thee-part speech prepared in response. "Right now," would suffice as a short answer these days. If people had a better understanding of some basic math and science, such as exponential curves and the laws of thermodynamics, we might not have so many ridiculous responses to peak oil. However, since the majority of the world is lacking in a grounded education, we'll continue to see people swallow the MSM conspiracy theories about the causes of depletion and therefore react angrily and in a variety of unproductive ways. More in line with this thread, there's an increased chance for our superficial differences and divisions to become deeper as a result of our ignorance and fear.
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
Ayoob wrote:
God forbid you should just help out instead of bitching and crying and rioting.
I'm assuming you are directing this at the masses and not me, since it is obvious I'm trying to learn as much about this topic as I can having just discovered PO a little under a month ago. Despite your "EXPERT" tag I doubt you were born PO aware.
As for the masses bitching and crying, thats a natural human response if they don't know and the little bit they do know is intentional misinformation.
Even the intelligent and supposedly informed have no idea of PO and think that ANWAR will make us energy independent.
Last edited by usncom on Sun May 25, 2008 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
Quote:
His witty New York sarcasm left no social group spared from criticism whether it was NASCAR fans, clannish Southerners, Country Music fans, or the Hip Hop community.
Really? Please cite the section where he blasts Jews, and specifically Zionists - I couldn't find it. Maybe he could rerelease the book with a section about Joe Lieberman's attempt to militarize the U.S., lock down U.S. citizens, and provoke a war with Iran to help prop up the racist Israeli regime. No?
As for "Peak Oil" from an "African American" perspective, two things are going to be made very clear in the next 10 years . . .
Black Africans are doomed. Those who haven't already returned to a barely-living starvation lifestyle are going to be there soon. The horrible ethnic violence that plagues that continent will get much worse. Any small pockets of humanity resembling civilization will be gone.
As for Black Americans, what is their current state?
After having endured the worst brutality that a people can endure and coming out of it, by force of will and leaders like King, blacks in the U.S. have chosen to re-enslave themselves.
While in 1965 it may have seemed that blacks had a chance to finally throw off the shackles of slavery and make a run for normalized integration into American society, where did they end up?
1 in 4 black males incarcerated.
In 1940, black illegitimacy rate was about 14%.
Now it's about 70%.
70%!
Black culture is predominantly defined by thug/gangsta culture, which idolizes idiots and degenerates and debases women.
Education is considered a sell out.
And on and on.
The statistics are unbelievable.
Blacks in America have re-enslaved themselves, and they will soon return to the state that they existed in pre-civil rights . . .
poor, uneducated, employable only at the lowest level, second class citizens through and through.
When the welfare starts to get cut off, blacks will be hurt the most.
And only Bill Cosby appears to want to speak up about where the blame really lies - the rest of the black "leaders" are too afraid to call a club a club and call out their own people.
Can you imagine the response if JJ or Al Sharpton came out and said, "our own music is a plague, and we need to boycott all black musicians producing violent, misogynistic music."
You know what the communal response to that would be?
"Say whaaaa, nigga?"
As you watch Africa struggle and you watch blacks in America handed opportunity after opportunity only to internally sabotage themselves, you have got to the figure . . .
blacks as a race are doomed to occupy the economic cellars of the world for at least the next 100 years. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4319 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
One things for sure. They will riot. History has proven this. After they riot, they will be shipped out to the "work camps". Yes work camps, they are already in place, just a waiting.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1311 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
Welcome, usncom. Your analysis seems fairly accurate.
This is going to be a class issue more than a race issue, IMO, as people are priced out of buying what were once seen as 'necessities'. _________________ Conservation is conservative
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment."
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
Cashmere wrote:
Quote:
His witty New York sarcasm left no social group spared from criticism whether it was NASCAR fans, clannish Southerners, Country Music fans, or the Hip Hop community.
Really? Please cite the section where he blasts Jews, and specifically Zionists - I couldn't find it. Maybe he could rerelease the book with a section about Joe Lieberman's attempt to militarize the U.S., lock down U.S. citizens, and provoke a war with Iran to help prop up the racist Israeli regime. No?
As for "Peak Oil" from an "African American" perspective, two things are going to be made very clear in the next 10 years . . .
Black Africans are doomed. Those who haven't already returned to a barely-living starvation lifestyle are going to be there soon. The horrible ethnic violence that plagues that continent will get much worse. Any small pockets of humanity resembling civilization will be gone.
As for Black Americans, what is their current state?
After having endured the worst brutality that a people can endure and coming out of it, by force of will and leaders like King, blacks in the U.S. have chosen to re-enslave themselves.
While in 1965 it may have seemed that blacks had a chance to finally throw off the shackles of slavery and make a run for normalized integration into American society, where did they end up?
1 in 4 black males incarcerated.
In 1940, black illegitimacy rate was about 14%.
Now it's about 70%.
70%!
Black culture is predominantly defined by thug/gangsta culture, which idolizes idiots and degenerates and debases women.
Education is considered a sell out.
And on and on.
The statistics are unbelievable.
Blacks in America have re-enslaved themselves, and they will soon return to the state that they existed in pre-civil rights . . .
poor, uneducated, employable only at the lowest level, second class citizens through and through.
When the welfare starts to get cut off, blacks will be hurt the most.
And only Bill Cosby appears to want to speak up about where the blame really lies - the rest of the black "leaders" are too afraid to call a club a club and call out their own people.
Can you imagine the response if JJ or Al Sharpton came out and said, "our own music is a plague, and we need to boycott all black musicians producing violent, misogynistic music."
You know what the communal response to that would be?
"Say whaaaa, nigga?"
As you watch Africa struggle and you watch blacks in America handed opportunity after opportunity only to internally sabotage themselves, you have got to the figure . . .
blacks as a race are doomed to occupy the economic cellars of the world for at least the next 100 years.
I get the jist of what you're saying cashmere. Black intellectuals have been discussing the issues you raise here ad nasuem behind closed doors.
Let me just provide my perspective on a couple of specific points.
Quote:
Black culture is predominantly defined by thug/gangsta culture, which idolizes idiots and degenerates and debases women.
This is how the mainstream media has defined black culture. I can't begin to describe the emnity that the likes of BET with its outrageous and demeaning caricutures has created within the black eductated middle class. I think you know what I'm getting at here. If the mainstream media can't be completely trusted to deal with the PO issue don't think it can be completely trusted to deal with fair and unbiased perceptions of race (or gender for that matter) either.
Quote:
"Can you imagine the response if JJ or Al Sharpton came out and said, "our own music is a plague, and we need to boycott all black musicians producing violent, misogynistic music."
At the risk of sounding like an Al Sharpton apologist let me state the facts. I have heard Al Sharpton repeatedly call out these artists that go along with MSM's promulgation of this gangsta thug culture. REPEATEDLY. He has organized protests against the corporations that produce and distribute it. Jay-Z even made a song taking pot shots at Sharpton for it.
Quote:
And if Al Sharpton is speaking for me
Somebody get him the word and tell him i don't approve
Tell him i'll remove the curses
If you tell me our schools gon' be perfect
When Jena 6 don't exist Tell him THAT's when i'll stop saying bitch---BIIITCH!
I understand things are dire in these communities. However, on the bright side, the black middle class is bigger and more educated than its ever been and we have a African American with a good shot at being president so I can't say "America handed opportunity after opportunity only to internally sabotage themselves."
I definately agree these doomsday PO scenarios are enough to erase all the social progress that has been made thus far.
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
USNCOM,
an Afro-American perspective on Peak Oil...hmmm
1.There are 100 majority African-American counties and about 20 major cities with majority black populations. So, black voters can organize and force their 120+ black mayors and county officials to form a consortium and go to the French, Russians, Japanese, Koreans, Indians, Israelis, Germans, South Africans, etc. and see how much it costs to build 150-200 nuclear power plants. Go into debt, use city/county infrastructure as collateral, the biggest lender wins the bid to build. Gather retired black navy vets that have worked on nuclear powered ships and every laid off black auto worker and have them build it under foreign management (until they are able to run plants independantly). Once we have reliable electricity we have a good shot at avoiding the worst.
Or
2. Learn Spanish. Talk to your Latino neighbors about gardening. Visit Cuba - when it becomes legal. Talk to some of those millions of black Cubans that have experienced "peak oil" via our trade embargo. Study Cuba and their solutions. Talk to your Central American, Vietnamese, Korean, and Russian neighbors about economic colllapse and political chaos. Learn why so many people that have posted on this board sound like crazed animals and how that will affect you.
And
fight to preserve your little portion of civilization. Good luck.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4319 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
Quote:
I understand things are dire in these communities. However, on the bright side, the black middle class is bigger and more educated than its ever been and we have a African American with a good shot at being president so I can't say "America handed opportunity after opportunity only to internally sabotage themselves."
Fixed: I understand things are dire in these communities. However, on the bright side, the black middle class is bigger and more educated than its ever been and we have a African American with a good chance of getting shot at being as president so I can't say "America handed opportunity after opportunity only to internally sabotage themselves."
Just what 'White" elites are planning to do. A perfect reson to implement Marshal law. Yup Obama, another JFK.
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective
So clearly written, and it is clear that the days of what you describe are near. A few years ago, I wrote three stories (fiction) of the times you describe -- I was aware of something happening, but I didn't know exactly what. Although I was aware that while the stories were 'fiction' they were in fact a bell ringing in a tower, calling all those who hear to 'be prepared'.
I wondered why the USA was not found in the listing of the nations in the book of Revelations - and now it is clearer as to the reasons and the way it happens. Thanks for your insight, and you are right, the point and blame game that poured into the USA when the Soviet Union fell (at least the old structured gov't) the society of 'tellers' has taken root and bloomed using the very liberties that were established to protect us from them and any other destructive intent. Amazing, we the people become the target and the weapon of destruction.
Thanks for your info. I'm almost overwhelmed, but I will breathe deep and step on.
Sharewill
usncom wrote:
Whether you belive in a hard crash or a soft landing there is no doubt that whatever the outcome it will leave severe economic scars among the lower working classes and lower classes of society which just happens to dispriportionately consist of blacks and hispanics.
All one needs to do is to look at the devestating effects that the loss of high paying manufacturing industry had throughout the rust belt in the USA, particularly Detroit. Unemployment skyrocketed, families became unstable as more and more men abandoned them and or turned to a life of crime to make ends meet, and whole tracts of neighborhoods surrendered to decay, abandonment, and the drug trade.
If the service sector of North America is going to take as bad of a beating as peak oil doomers such as Kunstler predicts, then ALL of us are in a world of hurt no matter what your class status or race is. The only difference is the effects on the poor, those without higher education, and minorities will be 3 to 4 times worse.
I can't help but wonder how we will be able to let go of the superficial prejudices and pull together as a country or even as a global community for that matter if we are all fighting over the last few scraps of resources on the planet.
Kunstler touched upon this subject rather humorously in "The Long Emergency". His witty New York sarcasm left no social group spared from criticism whether it was NASCAR fans, clannish Southerners, Country Music fans, or the Hip Hop community. While I disagreed with his conclusions and perceived a cunning and seething hattred of the American Way of life underlying his writing I give him many browny points for brilliantly touching this sensitive subject of race and PO future.
No doubt, in a hard PO crash there are going to be alot of angry, vocal, and unfortunately some violent protests that the American Dream of a suburban house, two car garage, and a Chevy Suburban parked out in front. Trust me, blacks aren't going to be the only one violently protesting in the streets in this scenario. The blame game will fire up public vocal emnity with conservatives blaming liberals, liberals blaming conservatives, whites blaming blacks, blacks blaming "the man", and whites, blacks, and everybody in between blaming hispanics(for taking jobs) and Muslim countries(for hoarding oil). Hopefully a long protracted soft crash will mitigate these ill social aftershocks.
I want to hope for a bright future and that we will all just hold hands into the post peak oil sunset singing Kumbaya but some of the doomer posts I've seen on the "other PO site" give me grave doubts.
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