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Peakoil.com :: View topic - Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates
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Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates
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cipi604
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Joined: Aug 14, 2007
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Location: Montreal Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I think Bush had the more realistic energy plan, and why? Cause there is no way out. It's called war.
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Plantagenet
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Obama's promise to fix high oil prices by taxing big oil and severely limiting speculation on oil futures will be far more attractive to the average American, because (1) it requires absolutely no sacrifices and (2) it blames big oil companies and evil speculators (i.e. rich republicans) for high gas prices and makes them the scapegoats. Smile
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Cog
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

McCain and Obama, even if they did understand Peak Oil, would never run on a platform of power-down and alternative energy strategies. Those involve sacrifice and the American people don't want to hear about that.

I'm not really Democrat or Republican anymore and haven't decided how to vote in November. When PO becomes all too apparent in the next four years, what I'm wondering is who can make the bad medicine of this knowledge go down with the American people. I'd have to give the ability to persuade and reason to Obama at this point.
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SILENTTODD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Drifter wrote:
My guess is the most likely, realistic energy policy in the near future will be war. And it's true, most Americans don't want to hear about self-sacrifice and doing without. That's why it will be war.


I hope you’re very wrong. But I fear your right. People I work with are totally oblivious to what is happening and why. At most they complain about prices and most who look for a reason have latched on the "speculators are the cause" explanation or some how think if we only drilled in Anwar all our problems will instantly go away.

What is really scary, the people I work with at AT&T are not stupid, you have to pass a test to even get hired. They have just been suckered by a media that is totally oblivious.
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cube
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Do you notice something strange?
According to the article the 2 candidates completely disagree on everything.
Is there some rule in American politics that says you have to disagree on every single issue possible with your opponent?
For example why can't Obama says he agrees with McCain on nuclear power but disagrees with everything else.
or maybe...
Why can't McCain say he agrees with Obama on taxing oil companies but disagrees with everything else?

I'm getting an image of 2 elementary school boys having a silly argument on the playground: "If you say that then I must say something else."
Has American politics degenerated to such a low level of stupidity or maybe I'm reading between the lines too much?
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killJOY
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

america is a giant retard, with weapons.
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Battle_Scarred_Galactico
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Joined: Apr 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I'd say more like a giant crack-addicted weapons maker.
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cephalotus
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Joined: Sep 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Drifter wrote:
My guess is the most likely, realistic energy policy in the near future will be war. And it's true, most Americans don't want to hear about self-sacrifice and doing without. That's why it will be war.


So which country do you suggest has to be attacked?

And how should that help to lower the prize of crude oil?
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ColossalContrarian
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Drifter wrote:
cephalotus wrote:
So which country do you suggest has to be attacked?


I never said it was a good idea. Just the most likely outcome. When oil and gasoline shortages start to occur all over the US, you can bet there will be another war.


I would almost think rather than going for the oil producing countries why not go for the next largest consumer?

Chindia? Shocked

The US already failed at securing the supply side of the problem, now will we try for the demand side?
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cephalotus
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Drifter wrote:

I never said it was a good idea. Just the most likely outcome. When oil and gasoline shortages start to occur all over the US, you can bet there will be another war.


If it is the most likely outcome there must be a (or many) most likely country(s) to be attacked.

It's difficult to fight a war without an enemy.

So which country would you "think" the US "will most likely" attack?
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vision-master
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:
Whatever happens, there will probably be another US military draft sometime in the near future. Lots of unemployed young men needing jobs.


Just like Vietnam, those with means excape service. That's what's wrong with this Country. Draft em all like WWII.
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Plantagenet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

wrote:
the US will eventually start leveling Iraq from the air. I'm talking flattening entire cities. Completely take over and rebuild their aging oil infrastructure for US imports. Any resistance would be eliminated, taking few prisoners.


IMHO, your fantasy is highly unlikely to occur.

I just can't see President Barack Obama "flattening entire cities" in Iraq so you can continue to drive your SUV.
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Plantagenet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

cube wrote:
why can't Obama says he agrees with McCain on nuclear power but disagrees with everything else.
or maybe...
Why can't McCain say he agrees with Obama on taxing oil companies but disagrees with everything else?


Because they don't agree on these things.

They have fundamentally very different views on the energy problem.

McCain thinks increasing demand from India and China and insufficient global oil supply have caused the high oil prices.

Obama thinks high oil prices are caused by evil speculators, and if the US Congress will pass a law to change the rules on options trading, it will bring down world oil prices.
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Plantagenet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Drifter wrote:
I don't drive at all. Don't even own a car. Wink


Congrats! You are miles ahead of most of us.

IMHO, the pandering of both candidates during the campaign won't matter much anyway.

Obama isn't likely to bring down oil prices by suing OPEC and limiting US futures trading, and McCain would be essentially powerless to open offshore areas to drilling or to promote nuclear plant construction if he won, because the Congress would be controlled by the democrats. Smile
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TheDude
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

One possibility is the POTUS using H Bombs as leverage: The Nuclear Option. This assumes said President has the best interests of the American public in the first place.

Would consuming nations attempt an embargo of car exports to producing nations that show massive increases in domestic consumption? This is the sort of subject that crosses my mind a lot, but you never hear the like from members of Congress, never mind Pres candidates.

Not on board with the speculative theories. Can't wait for the vote, I think they're waiting until Sept. to gather evidence or some such rubbish. Expect any available effigy to get the torch. Dem resistance to expanded drilling etc. will, in the wake of $6+/gallon gas, collapse - along with sundry other items...

You can stop any time, Plant. Partisan sniping is about as exciting as watching heavily medicated invalids play lawn darts. Orlov: "In the Soviet Union at election time you only had the one bitter pill of the Communist Party. In the US with the Capitalist Parties you have two placebos."
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