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cipi604 Heavy Crude


Joined: Aug 14, 2007 Posts: 257 Location: Montreal Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| I think Bush had the more realistic energy plan, and why? Cause there is no way out. It's called war. |
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Plantagenet Expert


Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6270 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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Obama's promise to fix high oil prices by taxing big oil and severely limiting speculation on oil futures will be far more attractive to the average American, because (1) it requires absolutely no sacrifices and (2) it blames big oil companies and evil speculators (i.e. rich republicans) for high gas prices and makes them the scapegoats.  |
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Cog Heavy Crude


Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 148
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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McCain and Obama, even if they did understand Peak Oil, would never run on a platform of power-down and alternative energy strategies. Those involve sacrifice and the American people don't want to hear about that.
I'm not really Democrat or Republican anymore and haven't decided how to vote in November. When PO becomes all too apparent in the next four years, what I'm wondering is who can make the bad medicine of this knowledge go down with the American people. I'd have to give the ability to persuade and reason to Obama at this point. |
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SILENTTODD Intermediate Crude


Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 873 Location: Tustin, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| Drifter wrote: | | My guess is the most likely, realistic energy policy in the near future will be war. And it's true, most Americans don't want to hear about self-sacrifice and doing without. That's why it will be war. |
I hope you’re very wrong. But I fear your right. People I work with are totally oblivious to what is happening and why. At most they complain about prices and most who look for a reason have latched on the "speculators are the cause" explanation or some how think if we only drilled in Anwar all our problems will instantly go away.
What is really scary, the people I work with at AT&T are not stupid, you have to pass a test to even get hired. They have just been suckered by a media that is totally oblivious. _________________ Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan |
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cube Fusion

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Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 3775
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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Do you notice something strange?
According to the article the 2 candidates completely disagree on everything.
Is there some rule in American politics that says you have to disagree on every single issue possible with your opponent?
For example why can't Obama says he agrees with McCain on nuclear power but disagrees with everything else.
or maybe...
Why can't McCain say he agrees with Obama on taxing oil companies but disagrees with everything else?
I'm getting an image of 2 elementary school boys having a silly argument on the playground: "If you say that then I must say something else."
Has American politics degenerated to such a low level of stupidity or maybe I'm reading between the lines too much? |
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killJOY Fission


Joined: Feb 21, 2005 Posts: 2509 Location: ^NNE^
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:24 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| america is a giant retard, with weapons. |
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Battle_Scarred_Galactico Intermediate Crude

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Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 970
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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I'd say more like a giant crack-addicted weapons maker. _________________ "One minute I held the key, next the walls were closed on me, and I discovered that my castle stands upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand." |
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cephalotus Heavy Crude


Joined: Sep 18, 2007 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| Drifter wrote: | | My guess is the most likely, realistic energy policy in the near future will be war. And it's true, most Americans don't want to hear about self-sacrifice and doing without. That's why it will be war. |
So which country do you suggest has to be attacked?
And how should that help to lower the prize of crude oil? |
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ColossalContrarian Intermediate Crude


Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 684
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| Drifter wrote: | | cephalotus wrote: | | So which country do you suggest has to be attacked? |
I never said it was a good idea. Just the most likely outcome. When oil and gasoline shortages start to occur all over the US, you can bet there will be another war. |
I would almost think rather than going for the oil producing countries why not go for the next largest consumer?
Chindia?
The US already failed at securing the supply side of the problem, now will we try for the demand side? |
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cephalotus Heavy Crude


Joined: Sep 18, 2007 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| Drifter wrote: |
I never said it was a good idea. Just the most likely outcome. When oil and gasoline shortages start to occur all over the US, you can bet there will be another war. |
If it is the most likely outcome there must be a (or many) most likely country(s) to be attacked.
It's difficult to fight a war without an enemy.
So which country would you "think" the US "will most likely" attack? |
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vision-master Fusion


Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4727 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| Quote: | Whatever happens, there will probably be another US military draft sometime in the near future. Lots of unemployed young men needing jobs.
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Just like Vietnam, those with means excape service. That's what's wrong with this Country. Draft em all like WWII. |
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Plantagenet Expert


Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6270 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| wrote: | | the US will eventually start leveling Iraq from the air. I'm talking flattening entire cities. Completely take over and rebuild their aging oil infrastructure for US imports. Any resistance would be eliminated, taking few prisoners. |
IMHO, your fantasy is highly unlikely to occur.
I just can't see President Barack Obama "flattening entire cities" in Iraq so you can continue to drive your SUV. |
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Plantagenet Expert


Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6270 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| cube wrote: | why can't Obama says he agrees with McCain on nuclear power but disagrees with everything else.
or maybe...
Why can't McCain say he agrees with Obama on taxing oil companies but disagrees with everything else? |
Because they don't agree on these things.
They have fundamentally very different views on the energy problem.
McCain thinks increasing demand from India and China and insufficient global oil supply have caused the high oil prices.
Obama thinks high oil prices are caused by evil speculators, and if the US Congress will pass a law to change the rules on options trading, it will bring down world oil prices. |
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Plantagenet Expert


Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6270 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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| Drifter wrote: | I don't drive at all. Don't even own a car.  |
Congrats! You are miles ahead of most of us.
IMHO, the pandering of both candidates during the campaign won't matter much anyway.
Obama isn't likely to bring down oil prices by suing OPEC and limiting US futures trading, and McCain would be essentially powerless to open offshore areas to drilling or to promote nuclear plant construction if he won, because the Congress would be controlled by the democrats.  |
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TheDude Expert


Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3613 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Gas at $4 brings promises, pandering from candidates |
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One possibility is the POTUS using H Bombs as leverage: The Nuclear Option. This assumes said President has the best interests of the American public in the first place.
Would consuming nations attempt an embargo of car exports to producing nations that show massive increases in domestic consumption? This is the sort of subject that crosses my mind a lot, but you never hear the like from members of Congress, never mind Pres candidates.
Not on board with the speculative theories. Can't wait for the vote, I think they're waiting until Sept. to gather evidence or some such rubbish. Expect any available effigy to get the torch. Dem resistance to expanded drilling etc. will, in the wake of $6+/gallon gas, collapse - along with sundry other items...
You can stop any time, Plant. Partisan sniping is about as exciting as watching heavily medicated invalids play lawn darts. Orlov: "In the Soviet Union at election time you only had the one bitter pill of the Communist Party. In the US with the Capitalist Parties you have two placebos." _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
The Dude Is Not In: Leave A Message After The Beep. |
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