Joined: Oct 25, 2004 Posts: 1342 Location: Stalag 13
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
Since this is such an important topic, I thought it might be a good idea to start a truck/big rig transportation thread so we can talk about the effects high diesel and fuel prices are having today.
Everyone please feel free to post things related to current truck and big rig transportation- such as truck driver strikes, high priced diesel fuel effects on the transportation system, shortages due to transportation problems, etc. News articles, comments, personal stories or observations, etc. are welcome.
*Please do not post any small-scale technology or future truck technology stuff in this thread* Thank you.
Rising fuel price is taking its toll on truckers
Quote:
High gasoline prices are emptying the pockets of American motorists, but imagine having two 150-gallon tanks to fill. Then imagine that fuel is already above $4 a gallon – approaching $5, in fact.
That's the situation facing the nation's truckers, who are wrestling with diesel fuel prices that have risen much more quickly than gasoline prices over the last year.
And while many are taking steps to adjust, some are parking their rigs and going out of business. Others are trying to weather falling profits.
Filling up twin 150-gallon fuel tanks with diesel at almost $5 a gallon is the challenge facing thousands of truckers, who make up a critical link in the nation's transportation network.
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"Three years ago, I was taking in $1,700 to $2,000 a week," said Ken Frohling, a 50-year-old trucker from South Dakota who recently stopped for fuel in southern Dallas on his way to Houston with a load of wallboard. "This year it's not even $1,000, and it's because of fuel costs."
Higher transportation costs may also lead to price hikes for many finished goods. And guess who pays for that?
"Everything you purchase in the supermarket, the clothing we put on our backs, the wood that goes into a home – it's all transported there somehow," said Kevin Smith, general manager of the Dallas operations facility of Dart Transit Co., a trucking company based in Eagan, Minn.
"So as the price of fuel goes up, everything is going to go up," he said.
link _________________ Now why didn't I think of that?
Last edited by Hogan on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 399 Location: Northern California, USA
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
Drifter wrote:
Since this is such an important topic, I thought it might be a good idea to start a truck/big rig transportation thread so we can consolidate all these topics into one convenient thread.
I'd like to point out that Trucking is something that is vitally important but has no good solution for powering it besides oil. Batteries don't have the energy density. Hydraulic hybrids are a step in the right direction. I think the impact of Peak Oil will be less severe in areas that have good access to water and rail transport.
Joined: Oct 25, 2004 Posts: 1342 Location: Stalag 13
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
abelardlindsay wrote:
Drifter wrote:
Since this is such an important topic, I thought it might be a good idea to start a truck/big rig transportation thread so we can consolidate all these topics into one convenient thread.
I'd like to point out that Trucking is something that is vitally important but has no good solution for powering it besides oil. Batteries don't have the energy density. Hydraulic hybrids are a step in the right direction. I think the impact of Peak Oil will be less severe in areas that have good access to water and rail transport.
I agree. There aren't going to be any battery or hybrid powered big rigs. Not going to happen. _________________ Now why didn't I think of that?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
We'd lean on the rail system much more if it weren't drowning under the massive strain of moving megatons of coal around every day for electricity. Bloody Three Mile Island idjits.
Of course, that doesn't excuse the fact that we've torn up the rails that don't serve power plants. About a century ago, there was rail within 12 miles of every point in my home state (Kansas). Amazing when you consider that was less than fifty years after statehood and the first track being laid. This is, sadly, no longer true. _________________ At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
Here in the Chicago area, I talked with a friend of mine who works on trucks (tires and brakes, mostly), and he said they slowed nearly 50%. When I asked why, he said "easy - over 1/2 the small guys have parked their trucks and are looking for other jobs".
To me, that's a huge statement. Consolidation, sure it will happen, but over 1/2 his clients? There's some ripple-down effects for you.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
I was sitting on a plane to Melbourne a couple of weeks ago and found myself sitting next to a sales manager from Mercedes Truck division. He said that yes many smaller operators are being forced to the wall here in Australia, but that the overall demand for new large trucking rigs over the next 10 years is going to be enormous. He said this was mostly due to the sharp increase in expected shipping volumes. Most of these rigs would be purchased by a small number of very large customers, e.g. Linfox etc. Under a business as usual scenario simply projecting growth over the last 20 years. He agreed that there was no good reason to assume business as usual, in light of depletion, but said that was the best model they had. I then asked him about alternative fuels for large interstate trucks, especially given the energy density of diesel. He said that duel fuel rigs using compressed or liquid natural gas are already being sold and used routinely here in Australia. It didn't sound like a mainstream option, but definitely off-the-shelf. It added extra weight to the rig due to the twin-hull pressurised gas tanks, and was expensive to instal. However apparently with the current price of LNG relative to diesel, savings were achievable.
He also said that any diesel engine, properly tuned, will actually last longer when running gas, than when running diesel oil. This surprised me but he was adamant. Burning LPG produces fewer soot and other solid combustion particles. These particles more than any other thing, are responsible for degrading the engine lubricant over time, leading to wear.
So gas for heavy trucks, especially in Australia, appears to make sense.
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 223 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
The military ordered hybrid trucks several years ago, and in the last 2 weeks I have seen two different manufacturers of "class 8" trucks demo hybrids. I think they will work locally but I remain skeptical of their ability to replace diesels for OTR as they are designed now. I remain skeptical of hybrid cars... let's see the batter life cycle through a few times before we sing their praises.
The amount of energy needed to replace those batteries and costs associated with that as compared to a car that gets 50 mpg on diesel remains to be seen.
LPG trucks have been on the market here in the USA for years, they are not popular due to fuel distribution lack, but I bet you see them soonest working the ports on the coasts.
Since the 2010 motors have been approved by CARB to even idle because they are so "clean" LOL the pressure to develop alternatives to diesel has diminished.
Although it might be popular in some circles to claim the railroads are not subsidized, they are. The latest meeting in Chicago of the heads of the RR included the predictable demand for billions of dollars of government grants to relay all those tracks they abandoned as non profitable just 20 years ago.. Maybe the public will fall for it? The original rails were laid on a land grab scheme where the government gave the railroads square miles alternating on each side of the roadway to repay them for their investment. Of course when the RR abandoned those lines they did not return any of those thousands or millions of square miles of LAND, nor the profits they realized from the sale of them...LOL
Unless something major is done to spread production of food stuffs, and manufactured goods, we are facing the same problem the soviets faced when their "empire" dissolved.. The scattered manufacturing base that seemed such a good idea when you were worried about bombing campaigns and revolutions built in a need for distribution and transportation.
Fortunately for everyone who intends to try to remain in some advanced sort of civilization, transportation will simply adapt just as it did to the demise of the covered wagon.
Short term adjustments include a near doubling of fuel mileage by truckers who are working hard to remain profitable in this elevated cost period. Long term adjustments may include hybrids or even pure electrics..
The dream that small independents will disappear under the pressure of the mismanaged giants of the industry will if we are lucky never be realized. Companies that cannot control their own functions to the point that they cannot retain employees and suffer almost 200 percent turn over of drivers are the least likely to remain in business when the going gets rough. They will like all empires built on oppression of workers totter for a while, but their fall is as certain as the fall of every other oppressive empire both political and mercantile.
1/2 of all small operators may have disapeared quietly into the night in Aissie land ( I doubt it, none of my Aussie friends who drive have mentioned any such drastic changes) so far here in the USA we have lost about 3 percent of small companies. The prices have not actually gone up much even though the retailers are pretending they have and are raising prices claiming increased transportation costs, LOL.
We have a 10 year cycle in this industry of weeding out those who do not know how to price thier services but rely on "leasing " to a big company and expect that company to protect them from the rising costs the big company uses lease operators to protect themselves from.. ( duh ) We also in the USA have a rather extensive number of "share cropping" systems set up to lure those drivers who wish to pretend to be independent into lease purchasing ( nothing down no credit check guarenteed to fail) that will of course crash and burn when no one can even pretend to see a way to make a living share croppng for them... So sad but then share cropping has a long history of broken dreams and broken men too. Those who do not read and understand history are bound to repeat it.
Just my opinion...typed on my laptop sitting on my steering wheel as I wait to load the fixtures for another NEW store in your local mall.... I will make a profit hauling them, because I do make a profit or I don't load the truck.
Fuel is just another item in your " cost of doing business". There is at this time no sign of a shortage, just a higher price.
Get back to me when there is no deisel to buy.... I'll tell you about teamsters and hames and double traces and even mules... My grandfather explained it all to me and even made sure I knew how to if it was necessary.... _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Joined: Oct 25, 2004 Posts: 1342 Location: Stalag 13
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
the48thronin and fiedag, thanks for your input! It's very helpful hearing comments from people who are actually in the trucking industry. _________________ Now why didn't I think of that?
By MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: April 27, 2008
Correction Appended
ONCE upon a time, hybrids were going to rule commercial vehicles. In May 2003, when gasoline was $1.50 a gallon, FedEx was predicting that it would have 30,000 hybrids on the road in a few years. But today, all companies together have only about 300.
On paper, commercial vehicles, not private cars, should be the “killer app” for hybrid technology. Delivery trucks operate in stop-and-go traffic, where hybrids excel. Commercial vehicles drive many more hours a day than family cars do, going many more miles in a year and using more fuel for each mile, thus multiplying the opportunities for saving fuel.
And with gasoline at about $3.50 a gallon, and diesel around $4, the shift to hybrids should go faster.
FedEx said in 2003 that it was buying 20 hybrid delivery trucks, but David J. Bronczek, chief executive of the company’s FedEx Express unit, said at the time, “I can’t envision any reason why we wouldn’t roll this out over the whole fleet.” Today, the company has about 100 but says it hopes to have dozens more by the end of the year.
U.P.S., which has been experimenting with alternative-fuel vehicles for decades, is using about 50 gasoline-electric hybrids and has tried two hydraulic hybrids, which store energy in the form of oil in a pressure tank instead of electricity in a battery. It plans to try eight more hydraulic hybrids, but is moving deliberately. “We need to justify them to all our stakeholders, our customers, our investors and our employees,” said Michael R. Hance, vice president for automotive engineering and operations.
Production volumes are small, so there are few economies of scale, the manufacturers and customers say. So the price premium for a hybrid is still very large.
“We need to get production up to several thousand a year to get the nice breaks in price structure,” said Kevin Beaty, manager of hybrid power systems at the Eaton Corporation, a major producer of hybrid delivery trucks and other medium- and heavy-duty vehicles. The company declined to provide production figures.
One result, he said, is that a delivery truck that costs $40,000 as an ordinary diesel will sell for $70,000 as a hybrid. There is progress, though: U.P.S. said its early hybrids cost double what an ordinary vehicle did, but the premium is now just 50 percent.
In contrast, when Toyota introduced the Prius, it began with a production run in the thousands per year and is now in the hundreds of thousands.
But for trucks, “we’re talking about an emerging technology,” said Dimitri Kazarinoff, a manager of new technologies at Eaton.
And there is another reason: consumers may buy a Prius or other hybrid because it is cool to own one, but businesses sharpen their pencils better when it comes to calculating the payback time.
For example, a 10,000-pound walk-in FedEx delivery truck called the W700 carries 6,000 pounds of packages. The company has dozens of these trucks that are hybrids. A consumer shopping for a car might be drawn by “the chicness of the Prius,” said Mitch Jackson, environmental director at the company. But when it comes to chic, “We never looked at the W700 in that light.”
Mr. Jackson said the company planned to replace standard trucks with hybrids if it were economically feasible. But even with $3 gasoline, the payback period is 20 years, he said.
Hybrids may be irresistible in some special cases, experts said. For example, Florida Power and Light is using what it calls a hybrid bucket truck. In a conventional bucket truck, the lineman keeps the truck’s gas or diesel engine running while parked on the job just to power the bucket. In the hybrid version, the power comes from batteries charged while the truck is moving.
And the range of hybrids in commercial use may eventually be much wider than those in light-duty vehicles like cars and S.U.V.’s. Eaton, for example, is working on another innovation, a purely hydraulic hybrid, for use in garbage trucks. These would capture the energy that is ordinarily lost when the truck stops for a curbside pickup, and gives it back through a hydraulic pump in a “launch assist,” to get the truck moving to the next house. It has no batteries and no special electrical system.
This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:
Correction: May 25, 2008
An article on April 27 about commercial applications for hybrid vehicles described a bucket truck used by Florida Power and Light incorrectly. While the truck’s hybrid system can indeed power the bucket, it can also power the drive wheels.
_________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4467 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
I'll put this in this thread
Quote:
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- FedEx Corp. said Wednesday that it swung to a fourth-fiscal-quarter loss from a year-earlier profit, reflecting a $696 million after-tax asset-impairment charge tied to the acquisition of Kinko's, as well as a surge in fuel prices and a weak U.S. economy.
Employees at both FedEX and UPS are going to be in a shock in the next 5-10 years. If diesel prices continue there climb and economy continues to sink...it won't be good. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 223 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
Smith brings "world's largest all-electric truck" to the US
by Donald Melanson
Quote:
This one's been spreading its all-electric charm around Europe for a little while already, but it looks like Smith Electric Vehicles' Smith Newton truck is now finally making its way to the US market. According to the company, with a gross vehicle weight of over 24,000lbs, the vehicle is the "world's largest all-electric truck," with a rack of "suitcase-sized" 278 volt batteries and a 120 kilowatt motor required to push it along at speeds up to 50 mph. That combo also gives the vehicle a range of some 150 miles, and an acceleration from 0-30mph that the company says is faster than the equivalent diesel-powered truck. No word on what it'll set you back, but Smith is set to open a factory in Fresno sometime next year to accommodate its new US presence, with a larger factory capable of turning out 10,000 vehicles a year to follow in 2010.
Smith Electric Vehicles has unveiled a 12,000kg (25,000lb) electric truck for the US market.
THE world’s leading manufacturer of commercial electric vehicles is launching its unique zero emission truck in the North American market.
The robust Smith Newton is the world's largest high performance electric truck, weighing in with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of over 24,000lbs. A rack of suitcase-sized, 278 volt batteries and a 120 kilowatt motor quickly propel the vehicle up to its top speed of 50mph. In fact, Newton can accelerate from 0-30mph faster than the equivalent diesel-powered truck.
Fully charged, the vehicle has a range of up to 150 miles, while the regenerative braking system returns power to the batteries every time the vehicle slows or stops.
Kevin Harkin, Sales Director for Smith Electric Vehicles, said: “Automotive manufacturers are telling us that the technology for mass-produced electric cars is some years away.
“But the larger sized commercial vehicle – and the truck in particular – is perfectly suited to electric technology that is available today.
“There are millions of commercial vehicles in North America that work in urban areas, within defined low mileage zones or routes. All of these machines, from light postal vehicles to heavier duty distribution trucks, can be replaced with our new technology electric vehicles.
“And these congested, densely populated urban areas are exactly where vehicles with zero tailpipe emissions can make the biggest improvement to air quality.”
Newton is the first vehicle in its class that can compete with the diesel equivalent – but without the polluting effects of tailpipe emissions such as nitrogen oxide; particulate matter and CO2. The vehicle has a payload capacity of up to 15,800lbs and is available in US truck Classes 5 through 7.
Launched in early 2007 in Europe, the Smith Newton is already in fleets for household names such as Starbucks, DHL and TK Maxx, along with British institutions like the Royal Mail and retailer Marks & Spencer.
It is designed for urban, intra-city operations, including home shopping delivery; 3PL logistics; post and parcel distribution; and municipal duties.
“An added benefit for fleet operators is that drivers love this vehicle,” said Kevin Harkin. “We take all the stress out of city truck driving – no gear changes, no noise, no cab rattle and no diesel smell.”
Along with addressing the problem of vehicle emissions in cities, the Newton also proves highly cost effective when it comes to maintenance.
“Newton’s electric motor has just four moving parts, compared to over one thousand in a modern diesel driveline,” said Kevin Harkin. “The major components are solid state and will still be in operation years after the rest of the vehicle has outlived its usefulness.”
Smith Electric Vehicles has a facility in Fresno, CA which will open next year to manufacture US-specific vehicles for North America. This will be followed by a larger factory capable of 10,000 vehicles a year, expected to open in 2010.
ENDS
earth toys link _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
frankthetank wrote:
Employees at both FedEX and UPS are going to be in a shock in the next 5-10 years. If diesel prices continue there climb and economy continues to sink...it won't be good.
Keeping with the sorta-off-subject here. I'll be curious what happens with FedEx and UPS. Out here in rural America, they've been a major leveling influence. 15 years ago, we were very much behind the times in 'stuff' (say, computers, but also sporting goods, art supplies, you name it). That which the little ma-and-pa stores had was way overpriced. But, the cost of shipping was painfully high. The internet and cheap shipping boom changed all that. People in dense urban areas buy from NewEgg, and so do the ruralists. Basically no inconvenience.
One model that may return is the "catalog agency". Pre-internet, my family would occasionally order things from the JCPenny or Sears catalogs. They'd be delivered at no extra charge to the (quite small) store in town, with minimal excess packaging, and we'd pick them up there (by walking, as often as not). If you knew the history of the town, you'd also notice that both the Penny's and Sears were on an abandoned railroad alignment, and had their semi-weekly delivery by boxcar up through WWII. Seems like it might be a viable business model, over all this cruising around town delivering little boxes. _________________ At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 223 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
Quote:
Hybrid Semi Truck technology rolled into town a short time ago, led by a collaboration between Peterbilt and Eaton. Already having achieved success in partnering to develop hybrid electric Class 6-7 vehicle platforms and Class 8 hybrid vehicles, the two companies are now planning to begin offering heavy-duty hybrid semis by 2009. Concept and final design refinements of the hybrid tractor trailers is being supported by Walmart, which operates the second largest private trucking fleet in the United States.
Over the next few years, Wal-Mart plans to use hybrid big rigs to increase the efficiency of their fleet by 25%. Based on independent testing, the fuel savings with hybrid semi trucks would be around $10,000 per year, when compared to similar, non-hybrid models. Those statistics don't even begin to measure the positive impact semi truck hybrids would have on the environment due to reduced emissions. Multiply this by the current semi population.
Not to be outdone, Kenworth introduced a medium-duty hybrid truck at the 2007 Mid-America Trucking Show. A Class 6 hybrid - electric semi truck, the T270 will see limited availability this year, with full scale production expected in 2008. Industry experts agree that a hybrid tractor trailer could achieve a fuel savings of 5-10% during long hauls. In regional delivery operations, where increased braking and reduced speeds would be the norm, efficiencies would be far greater. Hybrid Semi Trucks are here, more are coming, and someday we'll look back and remember when far less efficient semis roamed the earth. Only the company that will own this market remains to be seen.
hybrid truck web site _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 223 Location: On the highway, or the water somewhere!
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
International Harvester has a section on their web site about the new hybrid they offer, and Volvo has at least 2 test bed hybrids in operation I have seen... hybrid trucks will not solve the P O problem, but do represent one effort being made.
In the end, it comes down to either hunker down in your bunker and believe the sky is falling, or work to solve the crisis and develop new ways of doing things... both groups seem well represented here on this forum.
I prefer to remember the Wright Brothers not those who kept telling them that man was no meant to fly because we were not given wings by God. _________________ Courtesy and Courage, Sincerity and Self-control, Honor and Loyalty...a Code to Live By!
Where is my wooden pitchfork and torch anyway? I may need them for a visit to the castle soon!
Joined: Oct 25, 2004 Posts: 1342 Location: Stalag 13
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Truck/Big Rig Transportation Thread
I understand you are trying to remain positive about the future of trucking because it is your line of work. But we have to be realistic. It is a dying system. Posting possible future technologies or what might be ramped up in the future is alright and all. But really means nothing unless it is realistically scalable. Until we see it in mass production, it means very little.
I originally started this thread to focus on the reality of what is happening to truckers and the system due to high fuel and diesel prices. Now- today. That's all that really matters at the moment.
I would appreciate if everyone would post all future truck technology posts in Graeme's future technology thread or the Energy Technology sub-forum. _________________ Now why didn't I think of that?
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