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MyOldTDiIsStillGoing
Tar Sands
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 91
Location: CMH, I-71 Exit 112
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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True story. The NS and CSX mainlines run right behind my house. I was parking my car in the alley which parallels the tracks and saw a man doing something weird. He was using his coat to pull down the communication wires to cut them for the copper. He had a hand full.
The CSX police rep said this was happening all over their system and messing up their signaling for the trains. The 4 tracks behind my house serve sometimes up to 100 trains per day. Fortunately, the NS is the busies user of these tracks and their lines are underground.
My neighbor, who works for the CSX, joked with me, "another example of PO times". However, he wasn't joking about run a train on tracks without the signal system working and knowing it was people cutting the communication lines.
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DoomWarrior
Heavy Crude
Joined: May 06, 2008
Posts: 416
Location: Omicron Ceti 3
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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Q: "So, dude, what did you do today"
A: "Today? I stole a railroad" |
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MyOldTDiIsStillGoing
Tar Sands
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 91
Location: CMH, I-71 Exit 112
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| Hogan wrote: | Good point, MyOldTDiIsStillGoing. Metal thieves are now also stripping copper wiring that is used for train signal lights and crossings.  |
Stop, Look, Listen.
Remember to look both ways before crossing.
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THE SIMPLE LIFE: One frozen pond, a few sticks, a little round puck, and a bunch of rowdy kids. |
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lawnchair
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 786
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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And, as if running catenary for railroad electrification isn't expensive enough, this behavior could pretty well end that otherwise-logical path.
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Schneider
Heavy Crude
Joined: Oct 23, 2004
Posts: 490
Location: Canada/Quebec Province
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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From the Middle-East/Africa to America..
Wasn't it speculated a few years ago that we would see a kind of "collapse" because scavenging and stealing of the main infrastructures for metal !?? If i remember well, it was speculated that it would make any smooth transition mostly impossible..
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 2097
Location: kiwibush
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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Free enterprise. Ya gotta love it.
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cube
Fusion
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Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 3776
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| lawnchair wrote: | | And, as if running catenary for railroad electrification isn't expensive enough, this behavior could pretty well end that otherwise-logical path. |
Catenary line / electrified line is usually reserved for passenger trains which run much more frequently like at least a couple times a day. A metal thieve wouldn't have enough time to do his "handy work" in such a scenario.
I'm quite sure the government will very quickly beef up the laws to make the penalties so "severe", nobody will entertain the thought again. For example look at our tax laws. Is there anyone out there stupid enough to not pay their taxes?
//
How come I don't hear about metal thieves in China? With average incomes of only $300/month people should be ripping the bolts out of the ground but I have yet to hear one story coming out of China.... |
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MyOldTDiIsStillGoing
Tar Sands
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 91
Location: CMH, I-71 Exit 112
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| cube wrote: | | lawnchair wrote: | | And, as if running catenary for railroad electrification isn't expensive enough, this behavior could pretty well end that otherwise-logical path. |
Catenary line / electrified line is usually reserved for passenger trains which run much more frequently like at least a couple times a day. A metal thieve wouldn't have enough time to do his "handy work" in such a scenario.
I'm quite sure the government will very quickly beef up the laws to make the penalties so "severe", nobody will entertain the thought again. For example look at our tax laws. Is there anyone out there stupid enough to not pay their taxes? |
Have you been to Europe? It is almost all electric system even the freight locomotives use the overhead lines in many areas.
Easy target at night when most of the passenger service is idled in Europe except for a few night intercity trains. And the track lines are very open in Europe so access is easy.
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lawnchair
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 786
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| cube wrote: |
How come I don't hear about metal thieves in China? With average incomes of only $300/month people should be ripping the bolts out of the ground but I have yet to hear one story coming out of China.... |
The manhole cover thing started in China, four years ago. BBC story. Either it's worse now (possibly under-reported by state media), or TPTB have gotten a lot more scary.
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neocone
Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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In the future and a world of billions of (excess) people... Life will be disposable just as it is in overpopulated China.
Whoever is caught stealing steel is bound for 10 years of forced labor building railway tracks...
A pretty good deal for all of us if you ask me |
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cube
Fusion
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Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 3776
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| lawnchair wrote: | | cube wrote: |
How come I don't hear about metal thieves in China? With average incomes of only $300/month people should be ripping the bolts out of the ground but I have yet to hear one story coming out of China.... |
The manhole cover thing started in China, four years ago. BBC story. Either it's worse now (possibly under-reported by state media), or TPTB have gotten a lot more scary. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWJr6SAW_Vg |
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smallpoxgirl
Moderator
Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 6278
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| cube wrote: | | For example look at our tax laws. Is there anyone out there stupid enough to not pay their taxes? |
Are you kidding? LOTS of people don't pay taxes. If you're an employee it's pretty hard to avoid, but lots of self employed people never file. Very few of them are ever discovered and prosecuted. They usually try to be as mean as possible when they do find someone in order to make an example of them, but realistically IRS just doesn't have the manpower to track down more than a token number of non-filers.
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 4376
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| neocone wrote: | In the future and a world of billions of (excess) people... Life will be disposable just as it is in overpopulated China.
Whoever is caught stealing steel is bound for 10 years of forced labor building railway tracks...
A pretty good deal for all of us if you ask me |
Once people realize how much of a lifeline the trains are going to be, I wouldn't be surprised to see looters like this get shot in the act by the locals.
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Heineken
Expert
Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 6527
Location: Rural Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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Since railway systems are impossible to police completely (if they are to be economically viable, that is), the emerging theft problem may neutralize one of Kunstler's mantras. Railroads were one of the few rays of hope.
Another doom factor joins the long, long list.
Thanks, Hogan, for alerting us to this.
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jlw61
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Sep 03, 2007
Posts: 637
Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Metal thieves may derail the future of trains |
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| mos6507 wrote: | | neocone wrote: | In the future and a world of billions of (excess) people... Life will be disposable just as it is in overpopulated China.
Whoever is caught stealing steel is bound for 10 years of forced labor building railway tracks...
A pretty good deal for all of us if you ask me |
Once people realize how much of a lifeline the trains are going to be, I wouldn't be surprised to see looters like this get shot in the act by the locals. |
I agree. Remember, looting during and immediately after a disaster is usually considered a shoot-on-site offense. I think what's coming could be considered a disaster.
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