I will believe the Saudis don't see any upcoming problems with Ghawar when they cancel one of their projects due to low oil prices. If they continue to be full steam ahead with increasing their capacity then I think they are aware that Ghawar may not be as robust in 5 years time as they would like us to believe.
Joined: Feb 09, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Venezuela
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
I recently bought a small farm that borders mine here in Venezuela and along with it picked up a small hog operation that the owner had started.
To me, the animals looked under-nourished and not too well cared for so I had my vet hit 'em with vitamins and an anti-parasitic medicine and increased their feed allotment. I've also instructed the fellow caring for them to stay on top of keeping the animals and their surroundings really clean. We've painted their pens and will be adding a pump this week to increase water pressure.
However, the commercial feed I was purchasing was really beginning to look like a huge investment. After a week or so I was wondering if the numbers would work.
Driving to the ranch one day I stopped at my favorite fruit stand to load up. While there I asked the owner if she had any fruit and veggies that were headed for the garbage bin.....fully expecting she'd tell me that someone was already laying claim to the goodies. Instead, she produced a box with about 25 kilos of assorted stuff perfect for the hogs.
To make a long story short, I've duplicated the process here in the city. There are numerous open-air markets and it appears that there's very little competition for the throw-away product. With hardly any effort at all I'm loading up on a daily basis. Today, for instance, I hauled about 120 kilos to the ranch.
The results have been so impressive (weight gain versus reduction in feed costs) that during the weekend I bought 3 sows and their young and basically doubled the number of animals. I'm working with about 50 right now and the facility can probably handle another 30 to 40.
Here's a few pics of some of the animals.
Last edited by cudabachi on Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:39 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
I scrounge for veggie trims at the local markets for my chickens. I too am surprise that few take advantage of all this waste food.
This will change as we slide down the peak slope. Our livestock will be competing with people. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:29 am Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
I work in a restaurant on occasion when the work slows down at my regular job. Always table scraps to work with. I bring home a bucket for the chickens, they gobble it up. In the US, laws allow feeding of restaurant scraps to livestock if it is pasteurized before feeding the animals. If the animals and their products are not for sale, however, the law does not apply. Pasteurization would be handled by boiling, baking or otherwise thoroughly heating the product to 165 degrees for at least 10 minutes.
Gathering the scraps can be worked out with restaurant owners/operators. It saves them the hassle and cost of dumpsters, but must be picked up every day, and you will be responsible for the containers. Restaurants are able to sort their garbage and mostly keep the food separate from debris, but you may wish to inspect it. If not, some animals will be able to pick around the swizzle sticks and plastic. Paper napkins are difficult. Following feeding, there may be some debris left in the feeding area.
The scraps include a wide variety of foods. Garnish, uneaten menu items, bread, fruit and vegetable peels, meat trimmings, baked potato skins, rice that got a little too dry. It's different every day, gives my chickens a fine selection. Sometimes I think they eat better than I do.
I don't give them scraps every day. The days I do save me feeding them grains, which I have to pay for. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Joined: Feb 09, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Venezuela
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
kpeavey wrote:
I work in a restaurant on occasion when the work slows down at my regular job. Always table scraps to work with. I bring home a bucket for the chickens, they gobble it up. In the US, laws allow feeding of restaurant scraps to livestock if it is pasteurized before feeding the animals. If the animals and their products are not for sale, however, the law does not apply. Pasteurization would be handled by boiling, baking or otherwise thoroughly heating the product to 165 degrees for at least 10 minutes.
Gathering the scraps can be worked out with restaurant owners/operators. It saves them the hassle and cost of dumpsters, but must be picked up every day, and you will be responsible for the containers. Restaurants are able to sort their garbage and mostly keep the food separate from debris, but you may wish to inspect it. If not, some animals will be able to pick around the swizzle sticks and plastic. Paper napkins are difficult. Following feeding, there may be some debris left in the feeding area.
The scraps include a wide variety of foods. Garnish, uneaten menu items, bread, fruit and vegetable peels, meat trimmings, baked potato skins, rice that got a little too dry. It's different every day, gives my chickens a fine selection. Sometimes I think they eat better than I do.
I don't give them scraps every day. The days I do save me feeding them grains, which I have to pay for.
Looking ahead to when I have a much larger hog operation, I'll certainly be considering restaurant scraps though I'd like to hope that the veggie business will cover the volume of hogs I'd like to produce. Right now I'm hitting only one market near the house and there's probably a half dozen of this size in the city and numerous smaller ones as well.
I pay a youngster who lives a block from the market about $5.00 a day to make several trips there. He's using a hand cart and plastic crates to gather the stuff then bagging it for me at his place. So far so good. Eventually, I can imagine a couple of young guys with a small pickup making the rounds of the city during the morning hours and loading up. They could then sort, clean, and bag in the PM and I could haul a "finished product" to the ranch every two or three days.
Then, looking even further down the road, I could envision duplicating this effort in a city to the north of my ranch. The ranch is strategically located exactly halfway between two major cities. I had always considered this an advantage when I was ready to sell my products. However, the reverse could work as well in this instance.
And speaking of restaurants, there's also lots of bakeries here. I've not spoken to any but have a buddy who owns one. Might be that there'd be some extra sweet stuff to help fatten those hogs.
Joined: Feb 09, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Venezuela
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
skyemoor wrote:
Once PO takes away the spare restaurant scraps, is there a plan to feed them with anything grown on the farm? Or would you scale back the operation?
Honestly, I'm looking at reaching a level of selling 500 hogs a month! I've got the "cochinera" already designed and bank financing lined up as well if I wish to go that route.
There's plenty of market for the animals here in Venezuela, and at least for right now, clients who'll pay in U.S. dollars or Euros in Curacao, Aruba, and Bon Aire.
And to answer your specific question, yes, my plan is to provide almost 100% of my animal feed needs right from the ranch.
I just finished planting my second corn crop and have plans to plant grain sorghum, soybeans, and sugarcane as well. Eventually, I'll have an irrigation system in place so I can harvest two crops per year. Right now it's only one as I'm dependent on rainfall.
Corn, sorghum, and soybeans ground and mixed make an excellent hog feed. I've already got a new industrial grinder on hand that I'll use for the preparation of both cattle and hog feeds. I've also got silos/grain dryers in the plans so that I can store the feeds on location. The silos will also allow me to buy extra corn and sorghum in the immediate area of the ranch at a greatly reduced cost over buying them from government silos.
My place has plenty of what I call "marginal" sites that are not suitable for crops like corn or sorghum, but are suitable for planting stuff like "aouyama" which is akin to a pumpkin, and lechosa as well. Both of these make excellent hog feed and the aouyama is basically a "toss the seeds and wait for the results" type of crop requiring very little care once it's off and running.
I can foresee though that once the grains are being prepared for the hogs, I'll still supplement their feed with the veggies. So far, the results have been really impressive and the costs of gathering and moving the stuff minimal.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
cudabachi wrote:
skyemoor wrote:
Once PO takes away the spare restaurant scraps, is there a plan to feed them with anything grown on the farm? Or would you scale back the operation?
Honestly, I'm looking at reaching a level of selling 500 hogs a month!
6000 hogs a year is quite the operation (!)
It also implies a significant amount of manure management. Are you going to compost the manure and spread it back to the fields (or spray)? Would there be a schedule depending on the cycle of the particular crop being fertilized?
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
cudabachi. You may want to do a little research before you start feeding raw soybeans as a protein supplement to the hogs. Soybeans have a growth inhibitor enzyme. It is denatured with heat and no longer affect livestock. Soy bean meal has oil extracted which heats up enough to accomplish this or the whole beans can be roasted. Most hogs raised in the US are raised in comfinement as from the pictures it looks like yours are. If you really want to maximize the health of yyour hogs, fresh air sunshine and some kind of pasture will work wonders.
Joined: Feb 09, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Venezuela
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
skyemoor wrote:
cudabachi wrote:
skyemoor wrote:
Once PO takes away the spare restaurant scraps, is there a plan to feed them with anything grown on the farm? Or would you scale back the operation?
Honestly, I'm looking at reaching a level of selling 500 hogs a month!
6000 hogs a year is quite the operation (!)
It also implies a significant amount of manure management. Are you going to compost the manure and spread it back to the fields (or spray)? Would there be a schedule depending on the cycle of the particular crop being fertilized?
Are you going to have a person trained in basic treatment to keep a watch on (and treat) various simple ailments like parasites, etc?
Excellent questions, all.
I'm going to situate the hog operation structure on top of one of the hills I've got on my place. It's got about a 50 foot drop to the pasture below, almost straight down.
This positioning will help in two significant ways.
First, there's almost always a stiff breeze out of the east and being situated on the hill will help keep the animals cooler and reduce the fly problem significantly. And of course, I can use the help of gravity to move the liquid manure to the pasture below.
I've had my engineer design several settling ponds on the pasture. The plan is to use one pond while the other two are in some stage of drying. Once dried, the manure will be moved to a nearby location, mixed with straw, water will be added, and it'll be composed for several months before being returned to the fields. I'm going to do the same with manure from my cattle and poultry operations as well as I'm interested in reducing to a minimum my use of hydrocarbon-based fertilizers.
There will be a number of personnel caring for the hogs and they'll all be trained in the basics of understanding when an animal is not performing well. Having said that, I also plan to employ a Cuban veterinarian full time once the hog operation is in place.
Joined: Feb 09, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Venezuela
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
bruce2288 wrote:
cudabachi. You may want to do a little research before you start feeding raw soybeans as a protein supplement to the hogs. Soybeans have a growth inhibitor enzyme. It is denatured with heat and no longer affect livestock. Soy bean meal has oil extracted which heats up enough to accomplish this or the whole beans can be roasted. Most hogs raised in the US are raised in comfinement as from the pictures it looks like yours are. If you really want to maximize the health of yyour hogs, fresh air sunshine and some kind of pasture will work wonders.
I am aware of the soybean issues but will also admit I've got a lot of work (and research) to do before I get to the point of mixing my own feeds. There's a fellow to the south of me (a couple of hours away) who has a huge yucca plantation and processing plant. He and I have discussed moving yucca by-product from his place up to mine to augment my feed program. Yucca too has some potential serious problems for hogs if not properly handled so like I said, I've got a lot of work yet to do.
As for the issue of pasturing hogs, I've researched it but haven't reached an conclusions if it would work for me. The best potential pasture for hogs on my place is one that I picked up with this new farm. It seems ideal because it's low and stays wet most of the year. The reason for that though is because it has river frontage and I'm concerned about runoff being a problem.
Yeah, it's Venezuela, but if someone down the line complains about fecal material and bad smell in the water, or gets sick, it could present some serious problems for me.
Last edited by cudabachi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
cudabachi wrote:
And speaking of restaurants, there's also lots of bakeries here. I've not spoken to any but have a buddy who owns one. Might be that there'd be some extra sweet stuff to help fatten those hogs.
I forgot all about the pig bread!
My old man worked in a commercial bread bakery for decades. I was able to take a tour a couple of times. Now and then a loaf will fail, all sorts of reasons-machinery broke down, improper recipe, not enough oil in the pan. I saw a guy on the end of the production line pulling loaves of bread out of pans, tossing them in a box. This was the failed product, they sold it to pig farmers, called it pig bread.
No doubt there are all sorts of industries of all sizes with waste which can be used for feed. The larger industries do it all the time. Soybean plants make the oil, sell off the soybean waste as cattle and hog feed. Move it by the train load. For the number of hogs you are talking about, its the same thing on a smaller scale.
Definately check out the bakeries. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hogs are looking pretty good for the future.
I have just finished raising 3 pigs for my family 2 months ago. I bought 3 nutered male piglets last October. We butchered the first pig around Christmas. We were going to do the smallest of the pigs so he would fit in the small smoker but the biggest of the 3 had gotten agressive so we offered him up first. I kept the pigs in a 10 x 10 pen that could be moved around. The pigs were fed a commercial hog grower, out of date bread from a bread thrift shop, and scrapes from the house and the garden. We had a small family get together and had plenty of helping hands. The pigs were were over 250 pounds, very solid and nicely lean. We got enough meat to fill 3 freezers about a 1/3 full. We will be doing this again but I will be buying the piglets earlier so we will be killing them in cooler weather. The meat is far better then any we have ever had from a supermarket.
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
