I will believe the Saudis don't see any upcoming problems with Ghawar when they cancel one of their projects due to low oil prices. If they continue to be full steam ahead with increasing their capacity then I think they are aware that Ghawar may not be as robust in 5 years time as they would like us to believe.
First-of-a-Kind Long-Distance Demonstration of Solar-Powered Wireless Power Transmission Technology
What:
Space solar power could be a clean, renewable solution to America's long-term energy needs. John C. Mankins, former manager of NASA's Exploration Systems Research and Technology Program, and one of the foremost experts on space solar power, will announce on Friday a milestone demonstration of the critical technology enabling SSP: long-distance, solar-powered wireless power transmission.
The project demonstrated wireless power transmission between two Hawaiian islands 148 kilometers apart, more than the distance from the surface of Earth to the boundary of space.
It will be featured in an hour-long special that evening on Discovery Channel as part of DISCOVERY PROJECT EARTH, an eight-part series on the most ambitious geo-engineering ideas to tackle global climate change and the need for new and sustainable energy sources.
Space-based solar power, in which large satellites would collect plentiful solar energy in orbit and beam it safely down to Earth, could one day reduce our carbon emissions to virtually zero. It is the only energy technology that is clean, renewable, constant and capable of providing power to virtually any location on Earth.
Mankins will describe the demonstration project and show a realistic plan forward to develop this promising technology.
When:
Friday, September 12, 2008 at 9:30am
Where:
National Press Club, Lisagor Room
529 14th St. NW, 13th Floor
Washington, DC 20045
202-662-7500
Who:
John C. Mankins, COO of Managed Energy Technologies LLC
Mark Hopkins, Senior Vice President, National Space Society
More information about space solar power is available at www.nss.org/ssp
About the National Space Society
The National Space Society (NSS) is an independent, grassroots organization dedicated to the creation of a spacefaring civilization. Founded in 1974, NSS is widely acknowledged as the preeminent citizen's voice on space. NSS counts thousands of members and more than 50 chapters in the United States and around the world. The society also publishes Ad Astra magazine, an award-winning periodical chronicling the most important developments in space. For more information about NSS, visit www.nss.org.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
The technogeek side of me thinks, "awesome", the long term, rationale side of me thinks, "how can something that requires a tremendous amount of non-renewable energy to build and implement (blast into space) be considered "renewable"?" _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
Cashmere wrote:
The technogeek side of me thinks, "awesome", the long term, rationale side of me thinks, "how can something that requires a tremendous amount of non-renewable energy to build and implement (blast into space) be considered "renewable"?"
I guess it always goes back to EROEI.
I'm not a knee-jerk believer in things like this either. But I'll tune into the Discovery Channel presentation of it like a 1960's Boomer planted in front of The Wonderful World Of Disney.
Obviously, solar radiation outside the atmosphere is a tremendous energy source... From there, the ideas begin to pour forth. _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
It just needs 20 Russian rockets to actually launch it into space. Until then, it's a Hawaiian island power breakthrough. _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement, cannibalism, & zombie invasions.
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 369 Location: san jose CA
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
Any guess on how long these things would last once in space? I mean other than micro meteorite bombardment would there be any deterioration of the panels? The energy to get them up and running would be huge but then again they could function up there for hundreds maybe thousands of years...
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
Carlhole wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
The technogeek side of me thinks, "awesome", the long term, rationale side of me thinks, "how can something that requires a tremendous amount of non-renewable energy to build and implement (blast into space) be considered "renewable"?"
I guess it always goes back to EROEI.
Indeed, so let's look at the theoretical, ideal EROEI of SSP and at its costs.
(I don't do maths, so the following are not my numbers, but those of Dr Peter Diamandis).
-Let's say an SSP plant weighs 20 tons, which you need to get into an Earth Orbit at 200km altitude
Current cost is around $1 billion to get that up with STS (Soyuz-FG, vastly superior, can get it up for $200m).
So when it comes to costs, you can theoretically bring these down by a factor of 100,000. (This will require some tech breakthroughs, though, but that's the current theoretical bottom).
Now when it comes to EROEI, we have a no-brainer. SSP must have an EROEI of anywhere between 100 and 1000 (perhaps more). This is obvious if you look at how little energy it really takes to get 20 tons into 200km altitude EO. And once you're there, you have covered 90% of the energy needed to get your SSP plant (if required) into much deeper space.
Okay, so, like you say: "it always goes back to EROEI". And, as always, the technology has a hugely, megamassively positive energy balance. No brainer there, really.
I estimate the EROEI of SSP (under ideal/theoretical launch conditions) to be 1,000 to 1 or thereabouts. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Joined: Jan 16, 2005 Posts: 320 Location: Delft, Netherlands
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
... and there are a host of different applications of SSP:
Quote:
For the DoD specifically, beamed energy from space in quantities greater than 5 MWe has the potential to be a disruptive game changer on the battlefield.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3614 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
For non-NASA types: STS=Space Transportation System=Space Shuttle. An article in (I think) Popular Mechanics touted the simplistic beauty of Big Dumb Rockets. Goal was to hit $100/kg, 2 magnitudes cheaper than the Shuttle.
Quote:
Aerojet calculated the cost to $ 59 to $ 620 per kg. NASA had an interest in the Sea Dragon largely because of its large payload capacity. It had the cost calculations independently reassessed and they were largely confirmed. Immagine a $ 100 kg ticket price! In other words, we could fly into space for $ 10.000. Perhaps not cheap but well within range of affordability.
Too bad it didn't come true. As NASA's planetary ambitions shrank (to practically zero), the Sea Dragon was moth-balled and eventually forgotten.
From what I've read it'd still be simpler (relatively) to handle these things on Terra Firma. From Wiki: Space solar power
Quote:
A 1996 estimate[13] for the production of 5 billion watts (equivalent to five large nuclear power plants) would require several square km of solar collectors (weighing approximately 5 million kg) and an earth-based antenna 5 miles in diameter.
Would be simpler/less materials intensive to build renewables/pumped storage/nuclear for baseload/tied-in grid. Or, since Lorenzo's here, SOFC powered by biomass, which has high potential, sans the NIMBY response you'll get from voters who remember structures being burnt to the ground by out-of-control microwave beams in SimCity. Grandiose renewable schemes like Powering Civilization to 2050 don't factor in SPS as a solution to intermittency - in this case, I posed the question myself, to little response. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
The Dude Is Not In: Leave A Message After The Beep.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4868 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
Everything humans have ever made breaks down.
More importantly, everything we've made in the past few decades breaks down really fast and as we all know, all space based technology breaks down even faster due to deteriorating orbits, tech glitches, you name it. So this will require very costly periodic maintenance flights. This gismo won't just sit up there untended merrily pouring free energy down to everyone.
Don't forget to add that to the EROEI. _________________ Got Dharma?
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4727 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
eastbay wrote:
Everything humans have ever made breaks down.
More importantly, everything we've made in the past few decades breaks down really fast and as we all know, all space based technology breaks down even faster due to deteriorating orbits, tech glitches, you name it. So this will require very costly periodic maintenance flights. This gismo won't just sit up there untended merrily pouring free energy down to everyone.
Don't forget to add that to the EROEI.
Let the German's figure it out. _________________ Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4868 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Space-Based Solar Power Breakthrough to Be Announced
vision-master wrote:
eastbay wrote:
Everything humans have ever made breaks down.
More importantly, everything we've made in the past few decades breaks down really fast and as we all know, all space based technology breaks down even faster due to deteriorating orbits, tech glitches, you name it. So this will require very costly periodic maintenance flights. This gismo won't just sit up there untended merrily pouring free energy down to everyone.
Don't forget to add that to the EROEI.
Let the German's figure it out.
If anyone can, we all know they will. But the best they'll do is make it even more complex requiring even MORE maintenance! _________________ Got Dharma?
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
