I will believe the Saudis don't see any upcoming problems with Ghawar when they cancel one of their projects due to low oil prices. If they continue to be full steam ahead with increasing their capacity then I think they are aware that Ghawar may not be as robust in 5 years time as they would like us to believe.
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: 2nd Post
Hello, I'm a 20 year old college student, living with my mom and only recently gotten serious about the economic and energy situation. Trying to spread the word without sounding like a fanatic
Im trying to convince her to buy gold. Is it too late to start buying gold and silver? Or is it never too late? I see the prices have been going up the past few years.
Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
I have ignored precious metals and invested in food, alternative enrgy, food, gardening, food, clothing, food, paid off all debts......
My efforts are pointed at meeting our most basic needs before ANY form of financial investment. What do you need on a daily basis? No, the answer is NOT money, it is the things you buy with money. Get those things first! Real wealth is being able to have water, food, shelter, clothing, etc., under any circumstances. Think about it. _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
That's very good advice... I'm not sure which would be easier... convincing my mom to start stocking up on gold or start stocking up on food and water
Interestingly enough, I just now had a conversation about the whole thing with my mom and my sister and it turns out that my sister's boyfriend, a bible thumper (no offense), has pretty much convinced my mom and sister that the end of the world is coming by connecting Revelations with current events and has recently started stocking up on food.
And this is AFTER I tried to teach them about peak oil and the financial situation (showed them chris martenson's crash course too!) They didn't seem interested..
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
My opinion "Lord know that im no expert." I would invest in self sufficency over gold/silver ... Spend 5,000 on gold or spend 5,000 on a nice prep "Garden set up, Solor panal, Water system, .. Id say the Prep > The ore at this point imo.
That being said, having SOME Gold and SOME silver on hand could be a good idea. Also Consider keeping a small cashe of barter worth goods "Liqour, Ciggarettes , ect"
it may sound stupid but in some circumstances .. 200$ worth of cigarettes might get you more in trade than 200$ worth of silver .
just my take.
regards, Mack.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3855 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
yippleflipple wrote:
Interestingly enough, I just now had a conversation about the whole thing with my mom and my sister and it turns out that my sister's boyfriend, a bible thumper (no offense), has pretty much convinced my mom and sister that the end of the world is coming by connecting Revelations with current events and has recently started stalking up on food.
And this is AFTER I tried to teach them about peak oil and the financial situation (showed them chris martenson's crash course too!) They didn't seem interested..
Yippleflipple, it is difficult, if not impossible, to cram PeakEverything down someone's throat. If any of the information (ie: impending doom) gets through, the usual response is that their brain will shut down due to the inability to immediately reason out the consequences and plain old fear.
People will believe when they are intellectually ready. I would suggest that you read a lot more here, and introduce the topic in subtle, different ways. Let them figure it out at their own pace. They will not be happy. Your mother is old enough that she has established her lifestyle; your sister sounds young enough to understand, but she will not want her future happiness crushed.
You are not the first poster to have this problem, and you won't be the last. There are many threads in several of the forums regarding this situation and what techniques have been found to work best.
If at all possible, get them to visit PO.com, and do their own reading.
Oh, and welcome. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
Patience is right, Think about what you need to stay home for at least a few months. Food, water, toilet paper, cash, maybe a gas grill with a few bottles of propane, a bike and so on. Everyone's list is different. If you do get to the point where you can afford some gold or silver,, start with silver. It is much more affordable. And actually rite now is a good time to buy (I think) Silver is around $13 an ounce.
Welcome to the obsession. I keep a note pad next to my bed so when a think of something I need later I can write it down. Stupid PO
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
Thanks Pops! Great topic.
I like Jack's approach, very thorough... my dad has two handguns but lately Ive been trying to persuade him to buy a semi auto rifle (whether or not it's necessary it would still be cool to have one). I can imagine myself "walking the earth" with it Mad Max style.
Any suggestions as to what kind of career/job specialization I should go into? Was going to major in psychology but re-thinking that now... My mom has also been bugging me about getting a part time job (delivered pizzas for awhile, it sucked). Any practical skills to learn in the mean time?
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
actually Mad Max is before my time... I suppose the best parallel for my generation was that insanely long movie kevin costner made.. Post Man. But I'll take Post Man to Water World anyday though, IMHO. Kevin Costner with gills.. has disaster written all over it.
Any other suggestions would be much appreciated, especially for a youngin like myself... I suppose majoring in psychology would not be a good idea? who knows, maybe shrinks will become the new priestly caste of the post-carbon world
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
yippleflipple wrote:
Hello, I'm a 20 year old college student, living with my mom and only recently gotten serious about the economic and energy situation. Trying to spread the word without sounding like a fanatic
Im trying to convince her to buy gold. Is it too late to start buying gold and silver? Or is it never too late? I see the prices have been going up the past few years.
Any other suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Patience summed it up and pops gave you the formula for getting there.
I'll just add don't forget your self defense areas.(Guns)
I've got some metals, but I had them for decades. About 1200 oz of silver bought at $5 per oz and some scrap gold. No one can tell for sure if gold is too high or too low to buy. But if push comes to shove I'd say gold will be higher down the road as our world decomposes around us.
Gold is good for those worried about inflation hedges. Used to be the fed at least printed money. Now all that needs to be done to create billions is to magnetize a silicon chip. This is what fuels the hard commodity people that want something tangible for real wealth.
But it all revolves around our world not crumbling too much, as gold can be near worthless too. Would you rather have a sack of gold in the desert or a sack of bottled of water?
Let me tell you people in need don't want gold they want water, food and shelter and warm, dry clothes.
Try cig lighters, seeds, 22 ammo, matches, sewing needles, soap, etc., for barter.
You know sewing needles, fishhooks and 22 LR can't be made easily at home.
22 LR may be the small change currency of our future...not bars of gold and silver.
What you going to buy anyway when TEOTWAK arrives? A new Ferrari? A vacation home that you can't get to?
And gold is so high priced it is not that practical for small change transactions... "I'll trade a banana for your Krugerrand?" Well, maybe bananas are a bad example as they may become scarce as they need to be shipped in with crude sucking tankers.
Many areas of free barter items that run through our hands. We go through tons of seeds in a year and they would make good barter items and we get em for free in our food. Especially the high seeds yielding squashes and melons seeds.
Another for free area of barter goods is the disposable plastic bottles we drink from. Our family goes though 20 - 25 bottles a week. They can be saved if one has the room (which we don't) and used for barter if need be. (People will need empty bottles.)
Edible landscaping will be most important to feeding what is left of us when TEOTWAK arrives.
I got a late start as I knew nothing about food production before 2/11/08 and by the time my garden was ready to accept some seeds the summer was about a quarter over. But, as the saying goes...better late than never.
My lot is only 2/3 acre and I have to use the intensive method of planting. My main garden is about 750 SF but it has rock paths. I also have 6 smaller beds that are from 20 SF to 80 SF each. Also have 26 fruit tress.
Here is main garden.
Next year will put in another bed on side about 30 SF and a few more fruit trees.
if things get tougher, l'll put in squash bed about 350 SF
Here are 3 good books for those interested in developing an urban homestead.
I think we have a real food crisis brewing for the world. Not enough young farmers replacing the old, we will run low of fertilizer as the NG dries up and that food which is grown is devoid of nutrition and not healthy. And to make matter worse, fewer people can even afford to buy produce.
With the recent food shortages in the news I have to wonder as Richard Heinberg brought up "Who will be growing our food 20 years from now?"
"The average American farmer is 55 to 60 years old. The proportion of full time farmers younger than 35 years of age has dropped from 15.9% in 1982 to 5.8% in 2002. Who will be growing our food 20 years from now?" from "Peak Everything" by Richard Heinberg
"Amish farmers can't compete in conventual agriculture farming. 40 years ago 90% to 95% of the Amish were farmers. Today less than 10% are farmers." from: "How the Amish Survive" DVD
And even if the farmers keep up with production, many people cannot afford the high prices of produce. At Krogers a butternut squash was $7, a large apple was $1.85, a rutabaga was $3, an artichoke near $5 and a lemon was $1.35, a bag of cherries was $14.75, ONE organic yam was $8.25.
And these high priced produce are being offered when times are still relatively good What will this stuff sell for when gas is $10 or $15 a gallon? Peak oil, peak NG, peak water and food as well as peak uranium will fuel mass starvation as our artificial and unsustainable world decomposes around us.
As people buy less produce due to affordability issues and the produce stops selling and rots on the shelves, the farmers will grow less produce that just rots unsold and less potential farmers will be entering that field.
Book and DVD list. All available from your local library.
A Thousand Barrels a Second: the coming oil break point and the challenges facing an energy dependent world
by Tertzakian, Peter
Twilight in the Desert: the coming Saudi oil shock and the world economy
by Simmons, Matthew R.
Well written book examining 12 of the key Saudi oil fields.
Zoom:the global race to fuel the car of the future
by Iain Carson and Vijay V. Vaitheeswaran.
.."In a shipwreck, one of the passengers fastened a belt about him with one hundred pounds of gold in it, with which he was afterwards found at the bottom. Now, as he was sinking--had he the gold? Or had the gold him?" ~ Ruskin
Last edited by allenwrench on Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: 2nd Post
Ferretlover wrote:
yippleflipple wrote:
Interestingly enough, I just now had a conversation about the whole thing with my mom and my sister and it turns out that my sister's boyfriend, a bible thumper (no offense), has pretty much convinced my mom and sister that the end of the world is coming by connecting Revelations with current events and has recently started stalking up on food.
And this is AFTER I tried to teach them about peak oil and the financial situation (showed them chris martenson's crash course too!) They didn't seem interested..
Yippleflipple, it is difficult, if not impossible, to cram PeakEverything down someone's throat. If any of the information (ie: impending doom) gets through, the usual response is that their brain will shut down due to the inability to immediately reason out the consequences and plain old fear.
People will believe when they are intellectually ready. I would suggest that you read a lot more here, and introduce the topic in subtle, different ways. Let them figure it out at their own pace. They will not be happy. Your mother is old enough that she has established her lifestyle; your sister sounds young enough to understand, but she will not want her future happiness crushed.
You are not the first poster to have this problem, and you won't be the last. There are many threads in several of the forums regarding this situation and what techniques have been found to work best.
If at all possible, get them to visit PO.com, and do their own reading.
Oh, and welcome.
I am an agnostic.
But my wife that is Catholic says...pray, but keep rowing the boat!
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