Getting out of debt contradicts with planning for post peak?

turtleT

Hello everyone,
Even though my general thought patterns have unknowingly aligned with Peak-niks for years, I am a recent discoverer (~1 year) of the wealth of information out there about the subject. I am a believer and lean toward the gloomier predictions of what post-peak will be like. Having said that, I actually look forward to a simpler lifestyle if only I can survive the initial chaos. I want to be prepared for both the short and long-term consequences, and am in just the beginning stages of planning.
My problem is that I have about $180,000 in school loan debt (recent graduate from a professional school) to repay. The only way I can feasibly repay that sum is by staying in my field. However, my field is part of our consumptive society's problem. I am surrounded by over-educated people that are in complete denial about the amount of energy we use as a profession. I work long hours, such that I find it difficult to find the time to do research and gain experience for a post-peak world. I want to get out and start approaching a fossil fuel-free lifestyle. But I feel trapped in the present U.S. monetary, oil-driven machine.
Does anyone else feel this way, and do you have any ideas about how I should approach the magnificent debt while still maintaining my conservation ethic?
I believe strongly that once the crash comes, my profession will be obsolete. And since I believe this will occur sooner than later, I am not very optimistic about ever being able to pay back the loans. Should I get out now and default on my loans? Will credit reports matter in the future?
Thanks for your help,
TT

Pops · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:29 am Post subject:

That skin definitely came from some expensive sheep, Turtle!

As I’m sure you’ve read there are a few people here in the same boat. My initial reaction is not to burn any bridges.

The right attitude – namely not getting trapped in the consumption lifestyle, and a good job could be the best bet for someone aware of PO. Keeping your options open seems like a good plan since no one really knows how things will play out.

As far as your job being part of the problem, there are few of us not in that boat.
_________________
Make a plan and work it:

Ludi · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:02 am Post subject:

My suggestion is - stay in your profession, but don't buy into the consumption lifestyle. Keep all your expenses low, live in a small house, drive a small car, don't buy gadgets you don't need, etc. Spend the money you would have used keeping up with the Dr Joneses or Joneses, Esq, paying off your loans and preparing for possible hard times.

Kingcoal · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:07 am Post subject:

I would just work and live normally. You paid dearly for your credentials, now make them work for you! What exactly is this profession that will be obsolete post peak? It took me a long time to learn that you have to live now, make money now, and have fun now. Keep a positive attitude and most importantly an open mind and you will do well. When peak oil comes, there will be a grace period for people in the know to prepare.

Doly · Expert Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 4040

I agree with the concept of repaying your debt, at least for the moment, but use some of the money you earn in preparations for the post peak world.

RonMN · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:37 am Post subject:

I don't see any reason that you can't stay in your profession & still diversify/prepare. Buy low cost tools, seeds, books, things that will help in a post peak world. Learn and study farming...don't buy into over-consumption as much as possible while still paying off those loans.

When you factor in a mortguage, most people are in (or close to) the same boat as you.

turtleT · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:48 am Post subject:

Thank you very much for all of your replies. It heartens me to hear that other people are in the same boat, even though I wouldn't wish it on anyone. My field is veterinary radiation oncology. Certain types of cancer can be treated with radiation therapy, and that's where I would come in. Trouble is, I'm just starting my residency training for this, thus I won't be making any money for 3 years. Plenty of time for PO to have some major implications. I don't see people spending thousands of dollars on their pet during a deep recession. Not to mention the possible lack of energy needed to run the equipment for the procedures.

But as several of you said, none of us really knows what will happen when. I agree that the most prudent path is to keep on trucking towards my long awaited goal, and hope for the best. As well, I don't feel defaulting on my loans is a morally appropriate thing to do.

Ultimately though, I believe I will get out the field and live a more sustainable lifestyle, no matter if SHTF or not. This is the silver lining in PO for me. My whole lifestyle paradigm has shifted!

Doly · Expert Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 4040

Can't you change to a related field that has better chances of survival post peak? I think that either moving either towards farm vet or towards human medicine will be a good job post peak.

Janick · Coal Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: Canada

I am in debt also with a mortgage and car payments. My student loans are paid off thank god. But my total debt is about the same as yours.

I work in the human health care field, and although I feel my job is secure for awhile, I am in a subspecialty that might be obsolete eventually as well as I am a pathologist. I do have my med school training that I can count on, but as the years have passed since my medical training, I have lost some of my clinical reflexes, especially when it comes to treating illness. I'm still pretty good with diagnosing illness.

All I wanted to say is that I am in the same boat as you as far as debt is concerned, but I am in the early stages of planning simplifying my lifestyle so as to get rid of my debt.

Ebyss · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:23 am Post subject:

Don't forget Turtle, that Post peak we will be very dependent on large animals. Prize bulls, horses, rams etc will be valued for their high fertility and meat to bone ratios/conformation etc etc. Perhaps learn as much as you can in this particular area of veterinary. Did you have to do a preliminary veterinary degree and then specialise in oncology? Or did you go straight into oncology? Although, I will say that any hereditary cancers in animals won't be appreciated in sires or dams...
_________________
We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.

I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.

pea-jay · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:58 am Post subject:

well if you got government backed student loans you are pretty much saddled with them. They do not discharge under any bankruptcy scenario

Your only hope is to make minimum payments until the government is no longer able to collect or in a position to enforce these loans.

Or you could drop out of society, move to a commune and change all Identifying features and remain underground so to speak. No formal job, identification papers, etc.
_________________
UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com

Ludi · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:23 am Post subject:

I think the suggestion to transition to large animal vet is a good one. You might also want to take some EMT courses so you could make a transition into human health care. Basic medical services will be in great demand in the future in all parts of the world. By basic I mean really basic such as wound/trauma care, birthing, treating infections, etc. All knowledge transferable between species.

I think we'll all need to be generalists, not specialists, in the future.

pip · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject:

I see some kinds of debt as good. A debt in a business that will be needed post peak would be ok in my opinion. I intend to buy ranchland in a few years assuming my current oil investments do well. A fixed interest rate and inflation in the cost of food will have the effect of making the payments easier.
_________________
The road goes on forever and the party never ends - REK

smallpoxgirl · Moderator Joined: Nov 08, 2004 Posts: 6278

Wow! Other medical people. Nifty! Smile

I have a similar loan burden and am just finishing family practice residency(human).

I think the folks above hit the nail on the head. Nobody is going to be irradiating fluffy for a lymphoma, but lots of folks are going to need their horse, goat, cow, etc tuned up. Lots of work for vets to come.

Tough thing about Government garanteed loans is that not only can you not clear them through bankruptcy, many states are denying licenses to folks who default on their loans. So if you don't keep up the payments, you can't do your job. Montana won't even give you a driver's license if your loans are in default. Flip side is that if you work with your lender, you can keep those things in deferement and forebearance for a long time without paying anything.

FoxV · Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: