How to overcome NIMBYs?

OilBurner · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 417 Location: UK

I think most of us agree that wind power will be an important energy source in the future. However, with problems like this (see quote below), how will we ever achieve our renewable goals?

Storm of protest over planned windfarm
Plans for a windfarm composed of 27 turbines, each 115m high, near Tebay between the Lake District and Yorkshire Dales National Parks, are facing fierce local opposition. 400 people protested yesterday, one describing the plan as an absolute folly . The tourist industry in the region has made a comeback after the foot-and-mouth crisis, and this could be damaged by the development which would mar the exquisite views on offer.

Source :The Guardian, Vikram Dodd, 05/07/2004

So, the question is and remains, how to stop the NIMBYs, or if you prefer, are the NIMBYs right?
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Leanan · News Editor Joined: May 20, 2004 Posts: 4567

There was an article in Discover a couple of months ago, about Denmark island that's serving as a "green" experiment. They, too, had problems with people not wanting windmills all over the place. They got around it by putting a few on private farms...and allowing the farmers to keep the money earned from any extra electricity generated. Once people saw them, they warmed up to them. Today's windmills aren't ugly. They are very sleek, looking kind of like modern art, and quiet.

Also, they put huge banks of windmills offshore, where they aren't visible.

OilBurner · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 417 Location: UK

Sorry, I think I missed your point there. How does it help by putting them on private farms?

Off-shore is certainly a good solution but is fraught with extra costs and lower availability:

Offshore wind does require much more reliable installations compared with present (semi) offshore turbines available in the 1.5-2.5 MW class. The main reason is that offshore turbines may not always be accessible in rough weather, even when they are built relatively close to shore, as at Blyth (UK). A breakdown under poor weather conditions lasting days or even weeks can result in considerable loss in energy yield.

For state-of-the-art onshore wind turbines, availability rates of 98-99.5% are now common. For offshore turbines there are additional problems of access to carry out repairs in poor weather. At the moment - until technology features are introduced to enable much lower maintenance frequency, along with improved logistics that enable repair and maintenance to be carried out in poor weather conditions - the availability of offshore turbines can easily drop to 70%, or less.6

see:
http://www.jxj.com/magsandj/rew/2001_03/great_expectations.html

And for costs:

Going on the basis of the costs of the Danish offshore wind farm near Vindeby, it seems that the wind farm produces electricity for costs that are 50-60 per cent higher than an equivalent onshore scheme.
from:
http://www-tec.open.ac.uk/eeru/natta/o-swind.html
Also confirmed in some Powergen literature I saw this week.

So, I suspect there will still be a huge demand for on-shore wind farms, especially in countries that have a lot less coastline per capita (that's a new indicator!) than the UK has.
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JayHMorrison · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:46 am Post subject:

OilBurner · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 417 Location: UK

That may help change farmers minds, but in many areas (especially areas like the Lake District) where picturesque also equals good wind power potential, farmers are only one group of people complaining.
In this case, we're also looking at the segment of the population that value the beauty of the area or who rely on tourism for their income. i.e. a vast number larger than the percent of farmers.
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JayHMorrison · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:54 am Post subject:

OilBurner · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 417 Location: UK

So you're saying that once the people who own the land have been won over, the other resistance is irrelevent as their complaints will go unheeded?
I find that a dubious argument, because the tourist industry is very large and powerful in these areas and pressure will be directed towards councils and MPs involved.
So, yes - legally nobody is going to be able to stop a wind farm on appearances alone. Economically and politcally on the local levels it's going to be a different story.

If you think local people and businesses don't have any influence in local planning then take a look at these:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3565739.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2493653.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3497252.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/3056841.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2174241.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/3104289.stm
etc etc etc.

Of course, sometimes people do lose:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/3049291.stm

So you can't say for sure that just because there's no law against any objectionable aspect of wind farms that local people won't be able to stop them.
Certainly in Belgium they're struggling:
http://www.scientific-alliance.com/news_archives/energy/hotairandwind.htm
Quote:

Only yesterday, Belgium blocked plans for 50 new turbines because of the ruined views, the effect on seabird migration and the risk of maritime accidents and pollution.

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OilBurner · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 417 Location: UK

Here's a specific example where local people have stopped a wind farm development:
http://www.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/the_north_east/archive/2004/06/04/A9t83n.newsby.html
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JayHMorrison · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:48 am Post subject:

I guess I should have said, "In the United States, there is no right to a view". This has been established in law for quite a while.

OilBurner · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 417 Location: UK

Fair enough, but that's also true in the UK. There is no right to a view here either.
And yet still people manage to find ways of stopping things they don't like.
Money is power and if the people with the money object (tourism for example) and the local politicans are in sympathy then no wind project will stand a chance.
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small_steps · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:01 am Post subject:

When the power shortages begin, tourism is going to be a nonissue, as will the problem of being an 'eyesore'. Given wind has one of the higher EROEI, wind power will rise, and the arguements against it will melt away.

JayHMorrison · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:14 am Post subject:

small_steps · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:28 am Post subject:

Pops · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:35 am Post subject:

Rolling blackouts, price hikes and coal smoke I think will go a long way toward convincing people that those turbines look pretty cool too.
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Ardalla · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:30 pm Post subject:

If the Fed government would get behind the idea, there is a lot of government owned land in Montana and Wyoming that could be used for wind farms.