Tyler_JC wrote:While I love the idea of interstellar colonization, I just don't think it will ever be technologically workable.
The Saturn rocket used 10^11 joules of energy. The difference between the Wright Brothers plane and the Saturn rocket was only 4 orders of magnitude.
Sixstrings wrote:Tyler_JC wrote:While I love the idea of interstellar colonization, I just don't think it will ever be technologically workable.
The Saturn rocket used 10^11 joules of energy. The difference between the Wright Brothers plane and the Saturn rocket was only 4 orders of magnitude.
On the other hand, the Wright Brothers would probably have thought the idea of the Saturn rocket technologically unworkable.
But you may be right. Logically, our solitude on this planet is the greatest proof that interstellar travel may be out of reach. If it were possible, then somebody would have paid us a visit by now. Unless we're the only intelligent organism in the galaxy, though that's statistically unlikely.
Sixstrings wrote: Logically, our solitude on this planet is the greatest proof that interstellar travel may be out of reach. If it were possible, then somebody would have paid us a visit by now. Unless we're the only intelligent organism in the galaxy, though that's statistically unlikely.
Tyler_JC wrote:So we can go from burning wood to burning diesel and do this for several centuries but at some point, we'll be limited to how much new energy enters the system from the Sun.
yeahbut wrote:One factor I don't often hear included in calculations of the statistical likelihood of other intelligent lifeforms in the galaxy (100 billion stars, many it seems now with planets, a healthy percentage of those planetary systems having a candidate for life-providing conditions etc) is time.
Sixstrings wrote:yeahbut wrote:One factor I don't often hear included in calculations of the statistical likelihood of other intelligent lifeforms in the galaxy (100 billion stars, many it seems now with planets, a healthy percentage of those planetary systems having a candidate for life-providing conditions etc) is time.
We're in one of the outer rings of the Milky Way Galaxy. I don't think stars deeper in the galaxy are necessarily older or younger? As far as I know, there's a cycle that's been ongoing all across the universe since the big bang. And so there are countless systems that are at about the same stage of evolution as we are.
Not to get off subject, but what I find really interesting is what happens at the end of the universe. It used to make sense to me that it was all a big cycle, big bang - expansion - then contraction - then another big bang. But I believe the latest evidence suggests the universe will just keep expanding into infinity, destroying all matter forever. Which makes things harder to understand; to me anyway, a never ending cycle is more comprehensible than a definite beginning and a definite end.
yeahbut wrote:Sixstrings wrote: Logically, our solitude on this planet is the greatest proof that interstellar travel may be out of reach. If it were possible, then somebody would have paid us a visit by now. Unless we're the only intelligent organism in the galaxy, though that's statistically unlikely.
One factor I don't often hear included in calculations of the statistical likelihood of other intelligent lifeforms in the galaxy (100 billion stars, many it seems now with planets, a healthy percentage of those planetary systems having a candidate for life-providing conditions etc) is time. Yes, there may well be a very large number of planets that might produce life of some kind(and possibly in a tiny fraction of those, intelligent life that we could recognise), but they are not only seperated from us by the vast gulf of space.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Don't you think that SETI's failures might be a hint of our peculiar situation?
yeahbut wrote:As for the information theory part of your post, I am too primitive and stupid to have anything useful to add, I'm afraid
yeahbut wrote:I'm not sure if I'm getting your meaning there Six, are you saying that there is a fairly similar age of stars across our galaxy? If so, that's not correct. All the stars within a cluster can be assumed to be very close in age, because they all formed from the same gas/dust cloud, but the ages of the clusters themselves vary from still forming, to 'brand new', to nearly as old as the universe itself.
Indeed. I always found the notion of an expanding and then collapsing universe comforting in a strange way- it's almost like breathing, or birth and death. It is comprehensible, it can be related to life. A universe that expands forever into dissolution and heat death, until everything is utterly seperate and absolutely cold is a very bleak notion.
Sixstrings wrote:Stars can also collide, or lock each other into a binary orbit. Novae create new nebulae. Our own sun won't ever go nova, but when it collapses to white dwarf it will create a new nebula from all the mass it will shed.
Further in, the stars are closer to each other. It could be there are tens of thousands of aliens who are just close enough to have contact, but being out near the edges we're missing the party. Or the inter-stellar wars for all we know.
Then again, if certain quantum theories are correct then there are infinite universes. Every time you do one thing instead of another, you create an alternate universe wherein you did that other thing instead. Which fits in nicely with the Buddhist and Hindu ideas of Karma, that personal actions have a karmic effect on the universe as a whole.
The expanding / contracting universe theory also fits into Buddhism; but if heat death is the reality and there is no universal cycle, just a beginning point and an end point and then I guess the Christians end up closer to the truth.
Sixstrings wrote:We're sort of out in the boonies. Further in, the stars are closer to each other. It could be there are tens of thousands of aliens who are just close enough to have contact, but being out near the edges we're missing the party. Or the inter-stellar wars for all we know.
Tyler_JC wrote:Although a little radiation is helpful if it encourages genetic mutation which promotes evolution.
So there could be life closer to the galactic center but not anywhere near the exact center itself.
at this week's Astrophysics of Planetary Systems meeting, astronomer Francesco Pepe of the Geneva Observatory and the Swiss group reported that he and his colleagues could find no reliable sign of a fifth planet in Gliese 581's habitable zone. They used only their own observations, but they expanded their published data set from what the U.S. group included in its analysis to a length of 6.5 years and 180 measurements. "We do not see any evidence for a fifth planet ... as announced by Vogt et al.," Pepe wrote Science in an e-mail from the meeting. On the other hand, "we can't prove there is no fifth planet." No one yet has the required precision in their observations to prove the absence of such a small exoplanet, he notes.
Tyler_JC wrote:Way to be a wet blanket. Jeez...
Carbon pollution and over-use of Earth's natural resources have become so critical that, on current trends, we will need a second planet to meet our needs by 2030
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