[careinke]

There is work that needs to be done.

We have lots of surplus workers willing to do it.

Why not pay them to fix the bridges and repave the roads?

If it were a jobs program, so a real job, then that's one thing. But work required for unemployment checks.. you wouldn't want to work them more than maybe 15 hrs a week or they wouldn't have time to keep looking for a real job.

Yea, if they had to work 15 hours a week, that would only leave 153 hours per week to find a real job. Oops forgot about sleep, that brings it down to only 97 hours! Outrages I don't see how it would work.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Sounds like modern day slaverly.

PhD digging ditches while being supervised by 8th grade educated Nazi.

It is a sad truth but education of most of peoples is not worth much.
Just too many peoples are getting degrees and want to sit and fart into chair while shuffling paperwork rather than do something useful.
If they cannot find job, their degree is worthless.
They should do manual work in such situation, as long as such work makes sense.

[Oneaboveall]

Sounds like modern day slaverly.

PhD digging ditches while being supervised by 8th grade educated Nazi.

It is a sad truth but education of most of peoples is not worth much.
Just too many peoples are getting degrees and want to sit and fart into chair while shuffling paperwork rather than do something useful.
If they cannot find job, their degree is worthless.They should do manual work in such situation, as long as such work makes sense.

So education isn't worth anything unless it gets you a job? God forbid one should be educated for the sake of education.

[EnergyUnlimited]

So education isn't worth anything unless it gets you a job? God forbid one should be educated for the sake of education.

That's, fine, if they fancy to do it for some idealistic reasons.

However if they later got PhD and still have to dig ditches, they should not whine.
Tough life.

[Oneaboveall]

So education isn't worth anything unless it gets you a job? God forbid one should be educated for the sake of education.

That's, fine, if they fancy to do it for some idealistic reasons.

However if they later got PhD and still have to dig ditches, they should not whine.
Tough life.

If digging ditches is the only thing that can be thought of doing with a PhD, then there's a real problem there. It's this kind of thinking that got us where we are today.

[EnergyUnlimited]

If digging ditches is the only thing that can be thought of doing with a PhD, then there's a real problem there. It's this kind of thinking that got us where we are today.

Well, these awful market forces...

PhD-s seem to be in oversupply.
The same with BSc-s & MSc-s.

[Quinny]

Ludi, are you the only one who talks any sense on this forum?

[NickyBoy]

Ludi, are you the only one who talks any sense on this forum?

In a thread about UK unemployment policies he is rabbling on about the allocation of his tax dollars, American tax problems, an American entrepreneur who doesn't pay enough tax and how this highlights problems with his (American) society.

Reading his posts I was scratching my head trying to figure out if he was on medication, intentionally building a strawman argument or just another silly American who thinks the world ends on the shores of the Atlantic. There was very little sense there.

The UK is worlds apart from America when it comes to taxation and welfare. Remember by American standards our main right-wing party would be considered a bunch of scary socialists. You can't judge this policy from an American viewpoint, the laws and social security surrounding it are simply too far removed from anything you have experienced in the USA.

This policy will result in people loosing JSA (job seekers allowance) if they refuse to take part in work placements. The JSA, on average, only makes up around a third of the support an out-of-work individual can receive.

Our tax rates are also waaaaaaay higher than yours. Anything (and I mean anything) we earn over $50,000 here is taxed at 45%, we have fewer tax loopholes (and those that do exist are in the process of being closed) and our unions and employee protection over all makes USA employment conditions for the working/middle class look like slave labour.

Its a different society and until you have lived here in a council estate and seen the massive amount of benefit fraud that goes on by people that have access to some of the best working conditions in the world, you really don't have the experience needed to comment.

[Quinny]

Ludi, are you the only one who talks any sense on this forum?

In a thread about UK unemployment policies he is rabbling on about the allocation of his tax dollars, American tax problems, an American entrepreneur who doesn't pay enough tax and how this highlights problems with his (American) society.

Reading his posts I was scratching my head trying to figure out if he was on medication, intentionally building a strawman argument or just another silly American who thinks the world ends on the shores of the Atlantic. There was very little sense there.

The UK is worlds apart from America when it comes to taxation and welfare. Remember by American standards our main right-wing party would be considered a bunch of scary socialists. You can't judge this policy from an American viewpoint, the laws and social security surrounding it are simply too far removed from anything you have experienced in the USA.

This policy will result in people loosing JSA (job seekers allowance) if they refuse to take part in work placements. The JSA, on average, only makes up around a third of the support an out-of-work individual can receive.

Our tax rates are also waaaaaaay higher than yours. Anything (and I mean anything) we earn over $50,000 here is taxed at 45%, we have fewer tax loopholes (and those that do exist are in the process of being closed) and our unions and employee protection over all makes USA employment conditions for the working/middle class look like slave labour.

Its a different society and until you have lived here in a council estate and seen the massive amount of benefit fraud that goes on by people that have access to some of the best working conditions in the world, you really don't have the experience needed to comment.

It's amazing how those council housed benefit frauders are going to ruin the worls isn't it! Cock!

[Ludi]

Ludi, are you the only one who talks any sense on this forum?

Apparently I talk no sense whatsoever!

Apparently I am also a guy!

[Outcast_Searcher]

Looks good to me, vtsnowedin. The truly wealthy generally pay about 15% tax rate because virtually all of their income is investment income, not earned income. Warren Buffett famously talked about how his tax rate was/is lower than his secretary's.

Our tax laws are a total mess.

really, you'd prefer them not to invest?

What are you talking about Pretorian? Are you saying that if our tax system weren't a total fiasco built on literally many thousands of favors for the "good old boy network" that people wouldn't invest? Sounds preposterous to me.

If we could get a flat tax where the truly poor didn't pay (just have one moderate sized flat deduction, and that's IT), and everyone else did pay, and the rich paid a lot, but no more than some flat rate, like 35%, instead of the confiscatory levels like 90% often fantasized about by the far left -- why wouldn't that be better than the mess we have now?

(Except for the lawyers and the tax prep industry and the IRS, of course).

Think 35% is too much? Fine, then once we pay off all the debt and talk the left into having a smaller government we can afford with a smaller rate -- I'm all for it.

[americandream]

Those who have been on long term jobless benefits for too long in the UK could face compulsory manual labour. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765

Hahahaha. Coming to a country near you soon.

[americandream]

Anyone who has lived in a country with an effective social safety net knows that there are a significant number of people who abuse the system. I met a lot of them when I lived in England, I even worked with two guys who 'signed on' every thursday afternoon to claim the dole under another name while fully employed. Here in NZ, there are families where no one has worked thru three generations, there are a ton of people claiming sickness benefit when there is nothing wrong with them, and lots of other abuses. The system is humane, it makes it harder for members of society to fall thru the cracks, but some take advantage of it. Schemes to make long-term unemployment less palatable are a good idea. I don't know if this is that scheme, but it's at least looking in the right direction IMO

Hahaha. I might have guessed there lurked a capitalist sympathiser under that "radical" exterior. It is not for the common man to work for peanuts, its for the capitalist to quit skimming off the cream as if it was going out of fashion.

[Unconventional Ideas]

There's always a need to grow food, fix things, or clean things.

Finding a place in meaningful, tangible work like that is a good thing on many levels including physical and psychological.