[Pretorian]

Pfft. I stopped my education at 18 and now earn 190k dollars per annum . In my opinion it can just be about how clever you are. A degree will not hide that fact over the long term.

Do you pay your taxes in Germany or France? Anything for the Queen and the royal newlyweds?

[PrestonSturges]

I've met plenty of degreed technical people who keep riding that entrepreneurship merry go round and are in their 50s and in debt.

Being clever, innovative, and working around the clock for decades can still net you nothing at all.

Every successful person suffers from the "lottery ticket fallacy" - they think if everyone had done the same thing, they would all be rich. Scratch them a little and you will often find that the loudest "self made men" are like Trump - born into fortune or at least benefited from lots and lots of nepotism.

[davep]

Pfft. I stopped my education at 18 and now earn 190k dollars per annum . In my opinion it can just be about how clever you are. A degree will not hide that fact over the long term.

Do you pay your taxes in Germany or France? Anything for the Queen and the royal newlyweds?

Germany.

[vtsnowedin]

Fox news did a piece on this yesterday. Pretty much the list above only with the latest inflated figures. Petroleum engineers topped their list with a starting salery over $125k.
English and counciling majors are still saying "Do you want fries with that"

[Newfie]

Personally, I'm still pitching the "Engineering is Awesome" to my kid; and she's just eating up the math, science, & astronomy stuff. And when time to pay up comes around, I'll not give a second thought to paying for an Engi degree too. Best lifestyle investment, EVER. Even if the economy is trashed, I'll feel much better with Daughter Dearest, BS Chemical Engineering; than I will with Daughter Dearest, BA Art History... tyvm.

Smart Dad, lucky daughter.

[Newfie]

While we have an over-supply of engineers, we are chronically under-supplied with doctors.
So remember, work hard, study hard, and if you have the chance, I say become a doctor! That is what I tell my children. I never met a doctor in the unemployment line.

That may be true in some areas, I suspect it would be in the computer and related fields it is surely NOT true in other disciplines.

Like doctors there is a large degree of specialization.

Being and engineer does not guarantee you a good career on its own, it is a good foundation and a stepping stone to other things, IF you use that round thing on your shoulders for more than a hat rack.

Some of the dumbest people I have ever met have been engineers. But, many of the people I work with are pretty darn successful engineers. All of them making over $100k, except for the most junior. Specialty field, no glamor.

[pedalling_faster]

the option engineers have, especially in Silicon Valley, is a chance to meet people & to be involved in start-ups.

though the technology mix has shifted, now it's mostly programming. way fewer manufacturing engineer jobs in the SF Bay Area these days.

the best engineer i worked with was a physics major from UConn, working as an electrical engineer, named Bill. he was well-paid, of course. when the company was sold, he also received about $7 million (in 1990 dollars). one of the company co-founders received $94 million. having worked in the R&D lab when they were working on a "bet-the-company" type of instrument, i can definitely say that Bill was far more indispensible than that one wealthy founder.

for me what was priceless was learning from Bill. it was almost comical seeing him out-machine the machinists, out design the designers, etc. he truly led by example. more than once i had to go to an employee ( i was a supervisor, my job was to manage a staff that helped the electrical engineers build stuff) and tell them to stop working on something because Bill had already done their job.

once a manufacturing engineering supervisor made the mistake of telling Bill that a particular part couldn't be made. it was an essential component for the bet-the-company product, basically a thin wall tube with 4 slits. Bill got a little pissed and went into his own shop and made the same part - with 8 slits - way more difficult. he walked back into the manufacturing engineering supervisor's office and dropped the teeny part on the guy's desk.

anyway, i have learned from a lot of other engineers, and have compiled sort of a "top 10" list - top 10 that i worked with, and top 10 that i met but didn't work with. Bill was definitely the Best of the Best.

Bill even managed to run rings around HP's top microwave engineer, Julius, at a conference. that unfortunate soul presented a paper where he explained why a certain product was impossible. Bill had the next spot. in his presentation, he presented the product that Julius said was impossible - not as a paper launch, as real working hardware.

Bill & Julius did not get along.


when i look at today's engineers, i have mixed feelings. i know that Brin & Page @ Google are both brilliant. however, Zuckerberg is not brilliant, he's good at stealing technology & he had a product that the venture capital community liked. that he would be rewarded with venture capital after stealing the core software from 3 or more consulting clients tells us a lot about the current culture of Silicon Valley.

[Newfie]

Interesting Pedalling, you know when I think of engineers that sort does not even come to my mind.

My idea of engineering has more to do with construction projects and infrastructure design.

Different strokes.

Engineering is a BIG field. Tough to generalize.

[PrestonSturges]

Personally, I'm still pitching the "Engineering is Awesome" to my kid; and she's just eating up the math, science, & astronomy stuff. And when time to pay up comes around, I'll not give a second thought to paying for an Engi degree too. Best lifestyle investment, EVER. Even if the economy is trashed, I'll feel much better with Daughter Dearest, BS Chemical Engineering; than I will with Daughter Dearest, BA Art History... tyvm.

Smart Dad, lucky daughter.

Plus she'll be quite popular since engineering is still pretty much a sausage fest.

[AgentR11]

Plus she'll be quite popular since engineering is still pretty much a sausage fest.

We've already had a few "supply vs demand" discussions in that regard... I think the words high-maintenance are likely to be an understatement for some poor sap.

[Disillusioned]

I completed my master's degree in engineering a year ago, and I still haven't found a job. Entry level engineering jobs are very scarce. Most job postings I've seen require a minimum of three years of experience. These engineering salary statistics don't mean a thing if you can't actually get a job as an engineer. With the glut of new engineering graduates looking for jobs, competition is fierce for the few entry level job openings that do exist. Every time I apply for a job, I feel like I'm playing the lottery. I know my chances of winning are miniscule, and yet I play the game anyway. I'm sure my odds of landing a job just took a major hit now that the class of 2011 has been unleashed on the job market. I don't even get a response to probably 95% of the applications I submit. At some point I'll have to move on to something else and give up on being an engineer.

I don't blame companies for outsourcing entry level engineering tasks. If I were running a big company, I'd do the same thing if it saved money. Engineering can be done in China or India just as well as it can be done in America. Foreign engineers are just as smart and capable as we are. These are simple market forces at work. American engineers are overpriced relative to foreigners who are willing to do the same work for less money.

I wish I had understood this before I put so much time, effort, and money into becoming an engineer. I naively bought into the notion that we need more engineers and engineering will always be in demand. I'm sure a lot of people unwittingly promulgate this myth. I was guilty of encouraging people to study engineering myself. While engineering is something I've been passionate about my whole life, it doesn't really matter if I can't work as an engineer. I feel as though my engineering career was stillborn. I'm not bitter about all this, but I am kicking myself for falling into this trap.

I'll take this opportunity to warn people thinking about studying engineering. Think long and hard about what you are getting yourself into. You'll be spending a lot of time staying on top of one of the most challenging curricula in existence. Perhaps this is offset by how much you might enjoy it and a slightly higher salary than most other disciplines—that is if you manage to actually get a job. Then again, maybe it isn't worth it. That's something you have to decide for yourself.

Good luck to all.

[Newfie]

Disillusioned,

What kind of engineering degree? Civil? Structural? Power? Computers?

[Disillusioned]

Electrical.

[dsula]

I wish I had understood this before I put so much time, effort, and money into becoming an engineer.

If you're in micro chip electronics PM your resume. I've been looking for an entry level guy for a long time. If not you might want to check out Germany. I know a handful of companies who can't find any engineers either.
However it should still be clear that being an engineer is not enough. You still need to be good at what you're doing. It's hard to think you can't find a job. There's tons of openings.

[Novus]

However it should still be clear that being an engineer is not enough. You still need to be good at what you're doing. It's hard to think you can't find a job. There's tons of openings.

Those job openings are about mythical as unicorns. It is impossible to prove you are good at what you are doing if you don't have a job first. Companies are looking for that mythical creature called the fresh college grad with 20 years experience. Doesn't exist they will never find them. They are just chasing the fewer and fewer engineers that are already employed or nearing retirement. They never hire the unemployed and out of work. This is what the Computer programming industry looked like 10 years ago. Now that industry is in the grave as far as American employers are concerned. Engineering is on a fast track to the same fate. Third world status America here we come.


Disillusioned your are best is to save yourself the trouble and give on being engineer now. Either that or flee the country because you will not find what you are looking for here.

[dsula]

However it should still be clear that being an engineer is not enough. You still need to be good at what you're doing. It's hard to think you can't find a job. There's tons of openings.

Those job openings are about mythical as unicorns. It is impossible to prove you are good at what you are doing if you don't have a job first. Companies are looking for that mythical creature called the fresh college grad with 20 years experience. Doesn't exist they will never find them.

Yeah you can find a good guy. However they are not that common. I don't need a fresh grad with 20 years experience. But I need a guy I can see creativity and passion shine through. Those are the guys who will transform into great engineers. All other become cubicle dwellers. And many times (not always) you can tell in the first 5 minutes of an interview.

Disillusioned your are best is to save yourself the trouble and give on being engineer now. Either that or flee the country because you will not find what you are looking for here.

If you're in electronics and software it's best not to give up. Intel alone has 70 engineering openings in Mexico (guadalajara). If you don't have family, moving abroud might broaden your horizon.
All those job openings everywhere, I wish I could split in 5 persons, so much interesting stuff to do...so little time...

[smiley]

However they are not that common.

I'd say they are becoming extremely rare. I have a few openings, but if I look at the applicants that are fresh out of college it is hard to find anyone that cuts the grade, and experience is the least of the problem.

If I we're to draw up a list of putdowns it would be something like this.

1 Make sure that you understand the core of your profession. You should be able to excecute your work without access to Wiki.
2 Be ambitious. But the ambition should be to become the best in your profession not to jump to the next position the quickest.
3 Don't pimp your CV. Some of the CV's I get are laughable, or fall apart after a few calls. A University does not employ students as "General Program Manager" so don't pretend you are.
4 Don't you're whole life on facebook, twitter etc. For my line of work a public facebook or twitter page is a definate no.
5 Be loyal. The guy who hires a college grad is making a substantial investment, which he will only earn back over a matter of years so give him the confidence that you won't be job hopping until then.

But I need a guy I can see creativity and passion shine through.

Very true. Something I also noticed over the years, is that people who really excel in engineering usually have another great passion, whether it is rebuilding old cars, building musical instruments or something crazy.

That is something I specificly look for. People who cannot bring up the passion for something in their spare time, in all likelyhood cannot do that for their job.

[Newfie]

Electrical.

Power?

Systems?

Communications?

Have you any work experience what so ever?

Have you attempted the FE and/or PE exams?

[Pretorian]

Electrical.

Well if you are passionate about something like electrical engineering I can guarantee you will find a job ( eventually, anyway). No matter how many millions of graduates are out there, geeks like you will be needed ( no offense)

[35Kas]

If it requires a Security Clearance, Apply Within.

It is your only hope.