[Cog]

The way Cog lashes out at people on this board I would say he is narcissistic, bipolar or borderline. He has also admitted to talking to himself in a past post which could also mean he is hearing voices. Its best to stay away from people like this, I sure would hate to have to work for someone like this. Talk about a living hell.

I'm pretty sure he's the reason Ludi doesn't post here anymore. She disappeared after he called her a "bitch."

Cry me a frigging river. Being pretty sure isn't the same thing as being sure. Another of those intellectually dishonest people cruising the board.

[Pretorian]

Cog, what kind of retirement program do you offer your employees?

I offer them the "perform your job or get the fuck out the door" retirement program. As long as they perform, they are welcome to help me make money and ride into the sunset of free market capitalism.

Well but this is just silly of you. I expected better from someone who has such a very high opinion about his own intelligence. Smart people DO offer retirement programs, in exchange for lower pay and monthly discounts. Then they use their employees in a variety of ways, both at work and at their leisure time. They tell them what to buy, which cause to donate their time and money, whom to vote for, etc. They employ them and/or their family members sexually when it's appropriate.
And when the time for pension comes you can always close your old shop and open a new one.

[Pretorian]

Maybe Dick Cheney was right , deficits don't matter. The show must go on!

They didnt matter when he was in charge. And in the long run, he is right too

[Novus]

"Folded like a cheap suit.."

Better to fold like a cheap suit than to be hanged like an expensive one.

[Sixstrings]

According to ZH, the debt ceiling has already been reached and the treasury has burned through $90 billion in just two weeks:

US Treasury Burns $90 Billion In Cash In Under Two Weeks

Now granted this is mostly due to paying off maturing Bills, which Geithner can't roll due to the debt ceiling being breached. But keep in mind that as we pointed out in T-Minus Two Months Until The $500 Billion Rolling Debt Ticking Timebomb Goes Off that there is nearly $500 billion in maturing short and long-term debt in the next month and a half which there will be no money to fund unless a debt ceiling decision is reached, but not by August 2, but July 22... or a week from today. And with Boehner refusing the Camp David dance invitation today, one can see why for the first time this afternoon we saw a coordinated sell off in bonds and stocks as the market is finally asking "what if..."
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/us-treasury-burns-90-billion-cash-two-weeks

So if I understand this right, the danger isn't just funding the current 50% spending deficit, but we need to roll over the old debt to new debt.

Meanwhile, I read somewhere the Federal Reserve has said the jobs situation is so bad they may need to do another stimulus. So this situation is ludicrous.. you have the Tea Party wanting big cuts, Obama wanting big cuts, but the Fed says it's going to print cash and inject it into the economy (translation: hand it out to Wall Street which didn't create any jobs when they did it before and it won't now, so is this just more giveaway to the rich?).

Bottom line, our government and shadow government (the Fed) have differing policies. Doesn't add up.

[SeaGypsy]

They do add up. To the USA becoming competitive with China:
ie: real wages $5 to $10 a day labour/ $50 to $100 a day managment. Social security/ soup kitchen. etc. etc.

The mega rich are doing as they have been, investing where the growth is, Asia. Giving them more to invest is not changing this paradigm.

[Sixstrings]

Giving them more to invest is not changing this paradigm.

Exactly.

We hear two things at once.. Congress wants to cut, not stimulate. Then the Fed says we need stimulation, but only stimulating they can do is print money for banksters to invest in China. Which doesn't create any jobs here.

Lower classes get it from both ends, Congress cutting and the Fed inflating and the rich filling their pockets.

[SeaGypsy]

Yep. I can't believe Americans still believe they have a democracy. It's really a farce run for the benefit of the super rich.

[Livewire713]

I keep reading that a default would cause interest rates to rise on just about everything. If your holding a lot of cash wouldnt this be beneficial to that group of people? If the United States defaults its going to hurt the average Joe but there is always a winner.

[SeaGypsy]

If the US defaults the whole world economy goes down the toilet. Hence the relative quiet about endless 'QE'.
Everyone is invested in the future of the Union. There will be no default, there will be more and more QEs until the US resembles Bangladesh or the Philippines.

[Sixstrings]

Obama gives 24 - 36 hour ultimatum:

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama gave lawmakers 24 to 36 hours to finalize the path forward for raising the debt ceiling during the latest high-stakes White House meeting on Thursday.

"It’s decision time," the president told attendees, according to the notes of a Democratic official. "We need concrete plans to move this forward."
Huffington Post

What isn't clear is what happens after 37 hours.. or why not a 24 - 48 hour ultimatum..

[Cog]

Obama gives 24 - 36 hour ultimatum: ... What isn't clear is what happens after 37 hours.. or why not a 24 - 48 hour ultimatum..

We can't let a good budget crisis interfere with his golf game.

[Sixstrings]

Obama pivots.. rather than stick it to all old folks, now it's just rich / upper middle class oldsters:

Obama Publicly Backs Means-Testing Medicare (UPDATE)

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama formally acknowledged on Friday that he would support a plan to means-test Medicare as a part of a deal to raise the nation’s debt ceiling.

“I have said that means-testing on Medicare, meaning people like myself -- I’m going to be turning 50 in a week, so I’m starting to think a little bit more about Medicare eligibility -- but you can envision a situation for somebody in my position, me having to pay a little bit more on premiums or co-pays would be appropriate.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/15/obama-medicare-means-testing_n_899839.html?1310744490

Good lord, this debt negotiation is all over the map with peoples' lives in the balance. One day it's raising the eligibility age, now today it's "Ryan plan for rich oldsters." This is too much instability, people need to know programs they pay into are concrete and won't shift ten different ways within a week.

As for the idea itself.. sounds like "the Ryan Plan" for upper income seniors. While Republicans were willing to shaft all seniors equally, I don't see them ever targeting rich folks by themselves.

If something has to be cut, this makes the most sense.. Republicans love their Ryan Plan, so okay let's test it out on the oldsters who can best afford it.

On the other hand, philosophically it's not good to gut Medicare in any way. They say it will just be the rich, but that's a foothold toward Ryan Plan for all seniors.

Long term, we need lower medical costs overall but Obama failed on that with healthcare reform.

Strangest thing about all this is that Obama seems determined to cut something, even though the latest Republican position is to just raise the debt ceiling.

[Fishman]

"This is too much instability" Thats what happens when you're 14+ trillion dollars in the hole.

"people need to know programs they pay into (not even a fraction that goes out)
are concrete and won't shift ten different ways within a week."
An entitlement in a bankrupt country is not exactly the definition of concrete.

[Sixstrings]

An entitlement in a bankrupt country is not exactly the definition of concrete.

US isn't bankrupt, we're just funding half the budget by printing money.

What Tea Partiers don't understand is monetary policy. Not saying you have to agree with it, just understand it. For many years now the Federal Reserve has had a "weak dollar" policy. Deficit spending fits that strategy, and that is why Cheney said "deficits don't matter." The man was being honest..

Being for cuts and a balanced budget is too simplistic, you have to dig deeper. What you're really saying is that you're for a strong dollar, but if you say that then you must admit tariffs are necessary and we have to bring the jobs back.

If you're for offshoring and globalism, then you have to be for a weak dollar and that means budgetary deficit spending + a lot more monetary devaluation coming out of the Fed.

Figure out where you stand, Fish.. are you for globalist capitalism or against it.

[Pops]

I don't get it. O said lets cut 4 trillion from the deficit including SS and Medicare (sorta) and eliminate some wealth-fare tax subsidies on private jets... And the TEA-tottlers said no.

?

I thought they'd pull a Gingrich but I was wrong, old Newt actually had backbone and even some ideas of his own and achieved something before being kicked to the curb. What world are these one-tricksters from that they think that is a bad deal? What kind of deal did they think they were going to get from the most liberal socialist african muslim ever to pretend to be 'merican?


O is gonna say "I tried, I offered $4T but they chose tax breaks for the 1% and a sham vote over you and your children" and he'll be right and the bottom and the middle will give him 4 more years the the right will deserve it for allowing themselves to be infatuated by the power of a minority of selfish angry white men. And in reality that will be just fine with the wealthy, stingy, old, angry, white, Tax-tottlers because that will give them another excuse to be angry.

Meanwhile the debt will keep rising, the economy will continue gasping like a dry guppy, oil demand will rise to 91MB/D in the next 12 months (barring an economic collapse) and we'll still be stuck with representatives so one dimensional and scared of their own shadow they can't think beyond the next election.

Oh well, they'll be out soon.

[Fishman]

Another viewpoint Pops
For the conservative, history has show any and all deals with Democrats to cut deficits/ raise taxes leads to only the raised taxes part every time. Now Pops, I actually agree with the private plane part (Obama passed that in his stimulus plan)
"What kind of deal did they think they were going to get from the most liberal socialist african muslim ever to pretend to be 'merican?" WTF?
They are pushing hard because the people who elected them told them to do this. They are pushing hard because they know clearly this is a pathetic loser of a president.
Bad news for you Pops, most recent Gallup poll has Obama sucking more wind as this budget deal keeps going. He's down 8, .. in Gallup (so another 2 points in reality) .. among registered voters (so down another 2- 5 when it comes to actual voting), agains a generic Republican (so another 2 when nomination complete)
"bottom and the middle will give him 4 more years" less and less likely every day of his presidency. They are the most dispirited. The african american community has lost 98% yes NINETY EIGHT percent of their collective wealth during this presidency. The bottom and middle understand far more than the liberal "elite" that his failed economic policies are why they are suffering

[Cog]

I don't get it. O said lets cut 4 trillion from the deficit including SS and Medicare (sorta) and eliminate some wealth-fare tax subsidies on private jets... And the TEA-tottlers said no.

?

What were the details on those so called cuts? What departments and when were they supposed to occur over that 10 year time frame? Its easy to throw out a number and say you will cut but what are the specifics?

Just unicorns and more progressive fairy dust.

[AgentR11]

And did the tax increases and debt authorization go away if the cuts were later repealed?

[Ferretlover]

Ahem... Off topic posts split away.