[vision-master]

Obama gives 24 - 36 hour ultimatum:

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama gave lawmakers 24 to 36 hours to finalize the path forward for raising the debt ceiling during the latest high-stakes White House meeting on Thursday.

"It’s decision time," the president told attendees, according to the notes of a Democratic official. "We need concrete plans to move this forward."
Huffington Post

What isn't clear is what happens after 37 hours.. or why not a 24 - 48 hour ultimatum..

Your question was answered only to be deleted. I think it's called knowledge filters @ work on this 4um. lsol u2 fl

[Serial_Worrier]

What were the details on those so called cuts? What departments and when were they supposed to occur over that 10 year time frame? Its easy to throw out a number and say you will cut but what are the specifics?

Just unicorns and more progressive fairy dust.

Exactly, 'Bammy won't get specific on what he'd cut. So he throws out some fake number to give his leftist supporter talking points on how obstinate the GOP is.

[Pops]

Come on, you all know the reason there was no agreement on what would have been a pretty historic shift in spending is one-trick tea-tottler representatives are afraid of being crucified if they allowed even one little wealth subsidy to be eliminated.

Because wealth subsidy is what the tea-tottlers are all about, not spending.

The core tea-tottlers couldn't care any less about spending restraint or government debt or new jobs or the middle class or "the economy" or probably even racism, except as bumper stickers to jigger up popular support (in the non-wealthy) for wealth subsidies. They don't care about those things because they don't care about the society at large, their one and only concern is about themselves and their bank account and keeping as much for themselves as possible.

They are the logical result of the "ME" generation.


That's the one thing you have to remember about WASPs: they love animals and hate people.
-- Gordon Gekko

[DomusAlbion]

That's the one thing you have to remember about WASPs: they love animals and hate people.
-- Gordon Gekko

Now you're quoting fictional characters as if they're arbiters’ of truth? Wow!

[Sixstrings]

The core tea-tottlers couldn't care any less about spending restraint or government debt or new jobs or the middle class or "the economy" or probably even racism, except as bumper stickers to jigger up popular support (in the non-wealthy) for wealth subsidies. They don't care about those things because they don't care about the society at large, their one and only concern is about themselves and their bank account and keeping as much for themselves as possible.

Wow, this is the most firmly populist / left thing I've ever heard you say. I kind of liked your neutrality, I hope all my harping on this isn't turning you into a radical.

But well said, and you're right of course. I don't know what Tea Partiers are thinking. They're under the impression they don't need government. But some of them surely have an aged parent or other family in a nursing home. They must not understand that gutting medicaid doesn't just hurt poor people.

Tea Partiers apparently think they'll never get old.

And Tea Partiers are super-human, they will never get seriously sick or become disabled.

In addition to perfect health, Tea Partiers also never go bald, never look their age and therefore won't face age discrimination if they get laid off at fifty.

And lastly, all Tea Partiers are worth at least $5 million dollars. They must be, since that's what it honestly takes to fully self insure against all possible medical catastrophes and be confident you'll never need anything from government.

[AgentR11]

To be blunt, many Tea Party members haven't fully thought through the ramifications of their policy preferences. However, that doesn't imply that they wouldn't continue to hold them if they did.

I'd also like to take issue a bit with this asserted exceptional cost of old age.

Old age is only hyper expensive, *IF* you believe it is your obligation as an old person to avail yourself of all possible technology that enables you to extend your life. At least as far as I know, there is no law that requires one to hold this belief. Strike that belief, and hanging around the family as an old person is not expensive in any way at all.

Now, I'm not saying folks shouldn't be permitted to pursue a belief in medical salvation; only that the position opposite should also be accepted as a valid choice without undo hyperbole about advocating killing people. So, while I can not speak for all Tea Partiers, at least I am one sympathizer who holds such an preference for my life, and have taken the appropriate decisions to insure others are, in most cases, denied the capability to inflict advanced medicine intervention on me.

As far as balding goes... I'm not sure how that effects anything.
As far as age discrimination goes; I'm not sure a lot of that isn't simply people pricing themselves out of the market. A 60 yr old engineer is not, in general, five times as valuable as fresh meat out of school. (exceptional cases are exceptional, blah blah).

I think the best way to put the Tea Party core opinion is that, yes it will be unpleasant, and we will all get to sacrifice things we have come to expect, but the obscene spending and expanding of government absolutely must come to an end.

[vision-master]

The young fools know not what is in store for them.

[AgentR11]

Exactly the kind of intolerance that I speak of.
Can't not comprehend that someone might choose differently than themselves.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Old age is only hyper expensive, *IF* you believe it is your obligation as an old person to avail yourself of all possible technology that enables you to extend your life. At least as far as I know, there is no law that requires one to hold this belief. Strike that belief, and hanging around the family as an old person is not expensive in any way at all.

Now, I'm not saying folks shouldn't be permitted to pursue a belief in medical salvation; only that the position opposite should also be accepted as a valid choice without undo hyperbole about advocating killing people. So, while I can not speak for all Tea Partiers, at least I am one sympathizer who holds such an preference for my life, and have taken the appropriate decisions to insure others are, in most cases, denied the capability to inflict advanced medicine intervention on me.

+1

Well said. Living at a time that there is a severe lack of financial resources, including providing needed simple preventative care for many young productive or potentially productive people -- yet (the hard right/GOP) trying to FORCE society to spend gigantic amounts of money on people in their final days (who are often in agony) or to save or dramatically extend the lives of 85+ year olds with incurable diseases REGARDLESS OF COST is just plain insane.

We need to have an intelligent discussion about this as a society. We need to come up with some kind of a compromise on what we expect:

a). The government (society) to pay for - for the terminally ill and the advanced infirm aged.

b). What people's rights should be. Part of my personal plan is a large caliber handgun (I am single), since when the time is right (pain uncontrollable, no hope, etc), I can't count on the right to the same decent painless euthanasia BY MY CHOICE, DIRECTED WELL IN ADVANCE that we routinely (and appropriatly) apply to our beloved house pets.

Fixing this insanity, especially for those who DO NOT WANT expensive final drawn out care, should be a NO-BRAINER. IMO, irrational religious beliefs and the (unacceptable) willingness to impose those beliefs on others is primarily responsible for this.

(Just so I'm not misunderstood -- if people want to live as long as possible in agony AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE, due to their own religious, moral, fear of death, or whatever -- motivations, I'm all for that. It's only when you impose the costs and lack of freedoms on all of society that I condemn such behavior.)

[vision-master]

You two are what's wrong with America...

Enjoy your future. lsol

[AgentR11]

You two are what's wrong with America...
Enjoy your future. lsol

Future??? We're on the same board right?

Seriously, why wouldn't I enjoy my future, such as it is. I don't demand much; I have very modest material needs and desires. My family has turned out quite well, and I think I've positioned my child to thrive, or at least be able to endure, that which is coming down the pipe.

However, as I don't believe in physical immortality, I don't really see much to recommend the death experience of laying in a hospital bed with needles stuck in my body; I'd much prefer croaking painfully in a place that I know and am familiar with. (would be better with morphine, but apparently THAT is evil for some ridiculous reason.) In the end, nothing will prevent my lungs from filling with fluid, or my heart from throwing a tantrum, not doctors, not nurses, not fancy drugs or procedures, so why not die where *I* want to die?

Why should anyone be offended at my willingness to make such a choice?

If you *DO* believe in physical immortality, please inform the idiots in charge of that idea that if they try to make me live 200 yrs on this set of vertebrae, knees, ankles, and hips; I will most certainly find them and do horrible things to their vegetable garden!

[vision-master]

I'd much prefer croaking painfully in a place that I know and am familiar with. (would be better with morphine, but apparently THAT is evil for some ridiculous reason.)

You may become nothing more than a shit-ass that requires care 24/7.

[AgentR11]

Hard for that to happen if you don't dial 911 at the initial onset of the incident.
Just let it play out as it was meant to. Might take a few days to die of course, but I put good odds that the event will end before anyone can subject me to their ministrations.

Someone is obviously terrified of the unpleasantness associated with the human death experience. Well... guess what, hospital or not, doctors or not, it'll still get you. And short of inducing a coma, you'll still get to experience all the fun.

[Serial_Worrier]

The problem is how liberals have expanding the role of government to the point where we're going broke. All the federal government should do is provide for the national defense and environmental oversight. Everything else(SocSec, Medicare) can be provided via free markets.

[Livewire713]

The problem is how liberals have expanding the role of government to the point where we're going broke. All the federal government should do is provide for the national defense and environmental oversight. Everything else(SocSec, Medicare) can be provided via free markets.

How about conservatives and their christian crusades around the world? Or the conservative War on drugs yet you can drink yourself to death and smoke toxic chemicals from the tobacco companies all in the name of free markets.

[vision-master]

The problem is how liberals have expanding the role of government to the point where we're going broke. All the federal government should do is provide for the national defense and environmental oversight. Everything else(SocSec, Medicare) can be provided via free markets.

Free markets.

Also, you forgot, we are the aggressors. The National Guard has been sent to fight in foreign soil under the false flag of 911. Just another evil Christian plot to attack Islam (don't forget the oil).

[vision-master]

The problem is how liberals have expanding the role of government to the point where we're going broke. All the federal government should do is provide for the national defense and environmental oversight. Everything else(SocSec, Medicare) can be provided via free markets.

How about conservatives and their christian crusades around the world? Or the conservative War on drugs yet you can drink yourself to death and smoke toxic chemicals from the tobacco companies all in the name of free markets.

In my old age after doing much research, I have come to the conclusion that Christian fundies are the ppl we need to fear in the US of A.

[Serial_Worrier]

In my old age after doing much research, I have come to the conclusion that Christian fundies are the ppl we need to fear in the US of A.

You're deranged if you think Christian conservatives are the most dangerous people in the world.

[Livewire713]

In my old age after doing much research, I have come to the conclusion that Christian fundies are the ppl we need to fear in the US of A.

You're deranged if you think Christian conservatives are the most dangerous people in the world.

Serial Worrier you miss quoted me. Im only 38, I dont consider my age old...not yet anyway. Although I somewhat agree with VM. My fathers side of the family is Jewish so I do have concerns about Christians and Catholics. If you disagree with me I suggest watching a film called Constantine's Sword.

[vision-master]

In my old age after doing much research, I have come to the conclusion that Christian fundies are the ppl we need to fear in the US of A.

You're deranged if you think Christian conservatives are the most dangerous people in the world.

Hardly, take a look at yourself. Take a look at all the countless wars over the last few thousand years. Nope, I'm not deranged, just enlightened. Only when we once again live in harmony with Mother Earth shall humanity stand a chance. God the Father needs to be dethroned.