[Timo]

All of this discussion really only depends on what your definition of "collapse" is. Do bad things happening necessarily mean collapse? I don't think so, but this perspective is only relative to each individual. I can easily speculate that for 2/3 of the world's population, the break-up of the European Union won't mean a damned thing. Life will go on, just as it always has. 1st world economies aren't a relevant measure for most people in the world.

[AgentR11]

The lower 2/3rds of the world can only ignore Europe and the US if they are self sufficient on food calories.

Many aren't.

If things get really, really hard, Europe and the US can and will turn an unimaginable amount of grain into vehicle fuel. If you're life's bread depends upon imported grains, this is a potentially devastating exposure.

[Daniel_Plainview]

All of this discussion really only depends on what your definition of "collapse" is.

Ruppert himself defined "collapse" ... and he stated categorically and explicitly that there would be a total "collapse" by July.

I admire Ruppert, and his "Collapse" documentary is among my favorites ... but he was SO GLARINGLY MISGUIDED to have made this prediction that he deserves to be taken to the wood shed on this issue ...

Let this be a lesson to other prognosticators to (1) avoid explicit dates; and (2) avoid highly tenuous rationales (e.g., Fukushima).

[Lore]

We've been in the initial stages of collapse for quite some time now. Isn't that what this forum is warning us about? Like Kuntsler says, the emergency is long.

[Daniel_Plainview]

We've been in the initial stages of collapse for quite some time now. Isn't that what this forum is warning us about? Like Kuntsler says, the emergency is long.

Except that Ruppert was not contemplating a slow, gradual collapse ... instead, he made it very plain (and using alarmist language) that the downward momentum had accelerated to a feverish pace, and that it was SO OBVIOUS that collapse would happen by July that "even a caveman" would realize this inevitability.

[peeker01]

Like Ruppert said, "$hit, did I really say that?"

[peeker01]

Not even one word in regard to Ruppert's failed predictions on his website.....

http://www.collapsenet.com/

[Lore]

We've been in the initial stages of collapse for quite some time now. Isn't that what this forum is warning us about? Like Kuntsler says, the emergency is long.

Except that Ruppert was not contemplating a slow, gradual collapse ... instead, he made it very plain (and using alarmist language) that the downward momentum had accelerated to a feverish pace, and that it was SO OBVIOUS that collapse would happen by July that "even a caveman" would realize this inevitability.

That's because ole Ruppert has some snake oil to sell and an income from followers to make. However, if he continues to jump the shark like this he risks becoming the fool. The trap is he feels pressured to make a call. As Mae West said; “Don't keep a man guessing too long--he's sure to find the answer somewhere else.”

[Daniel_Plainview]

We've been in the initial stages of collapse for quite some time now. Isn't that what this forum is warning us about? Like Kuntsler says, the emergency is long.

Except that Ruppert was not contemplating a slow, gradual collapse ... instead, he made it very plain (and using alarmist language) that the downward momentum had accelerated to a feverish pace, and that it was SO OBVIOUS that collapse would happen by July that "even a caveman" would realize this inevitability.

That's because ole Ruppert has some snake oil to sell and an income from followers to make. However, if he continues to jump the shark like this he risks becoming the fool. The trap is he feels pressured to make a call. As Mae West said; “Don't keep a man guessing too long--he's sure to find the answer somewhere else.”

Ruppert and you and I all agree that collapse is inevitable ... and, indeed, if it weren't for the magic of fiat currencies, QE, ZIRP, bailouts, and federal debt monetization, the US economy would have collapsed in September/October, 2008.

The ability of bankrupt economies to continually kick-the-can down the road is a wonder to behold.

[peeker01]

You sound disappointed Daniel. Do you have a 401K?

[Sir.Henry]

I'm not quite familiar with that Ruppert guy although i did read the thread over here.

But nonetheless, there is an ad on collapsenet which is, in very mild words, extremely disgusting.
On the right hand, halfway to the bottom, the ad speaks of a "Tom Brown Jr's Tracker School". Tom Brown Jr. is somewhat of an idol to almost everyone who either tries to acquire primitive skills (for example making a fire out of two wooden sticks) or everyone trying to understand the connection between the old indian tribes in the USA and what they called "mother earth".

In this ad (click the link) a false Tom Brown Jr. talks about this great web site, when in fact nobody heard of him in the last... hm... 20 years or so.
His school has been dismantled for sure, i can post some photographs if needed.

Gentlemen, it is not possible for me to express my feelings regarding this obviously faked message without using some very strong words, so i won't even try to do so.

Just for comparison, how would you feel if somebody p***** on the US flag or r**** the Pope?

So i'd better stop here and now.

[AgentR11]

Well, to be fair, Rupert's a fast crash crazy. I think its fair to say that a good portion of the doomers here on PO are slow crash types. Yes, its hard to sell books and give presentations on a slow crash, but hey, not my problem.

[Daniel_Plainview]

You sound disappointed Daniel.

I'm disappointed that we live in a deeply artificial economy made possible by the once-in-a-lifetime consumption of fossil fuels ... and now that we've passed the peak of fossil-fuel production, we're confronted with yet more phoney economic trickery via bailouts, ballooning deficit spending, QE, ZIRP, and massive debt monetization. Who can honestly say that this charade is a positive thing? Bankers? Yes, of course ...

[peeker01]

Did you see his movie? Quite frightening. Amazing how persuasive some people can be with
the right editing. At the end of the movie they said he is broke, 2 months behind on his rent,
and soon to be moving back to Northern Ca. Seems alot of these people have failed in the
real world, and want to see the rules re-written.

[AgentR11]

I will cheerfully enter the abyss with the knowledge that I provided not one penny of my own coin to any of these guys, nor the GW guys. Not. One. Penny.

Interlibrary loan is a wonderful thing.

I have bought a couple of Jeavon's gardening books though, but I'm not counting those. I like gardening, and I like doing things in odd ways.

[Pops]

It would be interesting to see the correlation between MR doing the Shark Jump and his income. I'd wager he sees his receipts increase with his rhetoric.

Sex sells, in his case it's doom-porn.


But I think the unfortunate outcome of hyperbole is listeners can become not only calloused but outright rebellious about the real problems, AGW is the perfect example of hardening attitudes. But not only listeners but just people who casually stumble on such forecasts - same with Matt Simmons in his last days and even some of the scientific types at places like TOD who made dire forecasts and were quoted in the press.

I'm no shrink but I'm sure that is exactly what prompts our recurrent trolls to come poking eye and repeatedly chanting: nyah nyah no collapse! They get fixated on the few people with the most dire predictions and don't see that the range of opinion is all based on the same basic facts and assumptions - it's just the outcome that's in dispute.

[peeker01]

I'll take that as a no, Daniel.

[Daniel_Plainview]

I'm sure that is exactly what prompts our recurrent trolls to come poking eye and repeatedly chanting: nyah nyah no collapse! They get fixated on the few people with the most dire predictions and don't see that the range of opinion is all based on the same basic facts and assumptions - it's just the outcome that's in dispute.

Yes, this seems to be true ... Consider, for example, when Xenophobe (Short-on-sense) fixated on Matt Simmons' death, ... and Matt Savinar's downfall ...

As the cornies become more desperate, they will fixate onto any outlier that supports their vision ....

[americandream]

Ruppert is hasty by decades but capitalism, as I have said all along, will collapse under its weight of:

1 Infinite resourcing demand vis-a-vis finite resourcing capacity;
2 It's encroaching effect on the core resource, the planet's climate and carrying capacity;
3 The clash between blinkered and time limited self interest versus the inter-generational needs of the collective.

In the interim, we will most likely see another two or three booms as the developing economies of the Asians drag the mature Western economies through the sorts of convulsions that typify a free market shifting from investor mode to speculative gambling. Eventually, the global economy will slide into full scale speculation as markets mature in China and India with the resulting effect that the demands for increasingly spectacular annual growth figures will lead us to the strip mining of what resources we have left. Life will be a very different picture by then, probably with more in common with feudal pre-Romance Europe or the contemporary Islamic world. Arbitrary and increasingly punitive criminal remedies and zero labour protection.

[SeaGypsy]

So AD, have a nice break?

First, there is no collective, besides the collective farm we are resident in. The farm is owned by it's owners, not by the animals and there ain't going to be no Orwellian revolution any time soon.

Second, was that you goiung on about Gulags for people who get caught with drugs? Those who resist slavery on the collective farm?

Now after a few weeks holiday you want to expouse the diginity of personal liberty? Where did you go? Maybe learned something?