prajeshbhat wrote:The Europeans think the economy is about the people. The Americans think the economy is about things.
All economies are about people wanting things.
prajeshbhat wrote:The Europeans think the economy is about the people. The Americans think the economy is about things.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Pops wrote:So what was S&Ps motivation?
To be the most honest of *main three fraudsters* rating agencies?
Assigning AA+ for a bankrupt state is still a fraud.
Less so than assigning AAA but nevertheless still a fraud.
americandream wrote:smiley wrote:The conclusion might be a bit premature, but we're certainly seeing a leadership challenge between the US and China at the moment.
China challenging the US.........
Methinks not. China is owned by Western capitalism. Any real challenge to the US is about as likely as Arnie the Terminator doing a movie in which he really acts. The only real challenge to the capitalist model that America (and Britain) are in the process of finalising will ONLY come from the workers....and that is a long way off.
radon wrote:americandream wrote:smiley wrote:The conclusion might be a bit premature, but we're certainly seeing a leadership challenge between the US and China at the moment.
China challenging the US.........
Methinks not. China is owned by Western capitalism. Any real challenge to the US is about as likely as Arnie the Terminator doing a movie in which he really acts. The only real challenge to the capitalist model that America (and Britain) are in the process of finalising will ONLY come from the workers....and that is a long way off.
Your general sentiment is appealing, but who are these "workers"? Have you seen any "workers" in the UK or the US? All the "workers" in the world are now in China and the surroundings. How will the Chinese workers be able to challenge anything in America (and Britain)?
americandream wrote:It is this very precarious position, which is a relatively sanguine state in the as yet incompletely globalised world, which will continue to ensure for a very long time that any rebelliousness is largely cosmetic and opportunistic, as we see in the UK. Give it some time though. The project to diminish the state, destroy services, casualise employment as well as drastically reduce it's cost is only but starting. We aren't anywhere near as bad as it is going to get. In fact, these are the "good" times for consumer society despite appearances. And these times have decades yet to run.
Well, so far they're just "in the crosshairs":Keith_McClary wrote:S&P Offices Demolished by Cruise Missile
Standard & Poor's downgrade of the U.S. government's credit rating has created something few thought possible: a bipartisan consensus in Washington.
Unfortunately for S&P, the rating firm is the one in the crosshairs. Democrats and Republicans in Congress are gearing up to put it under investigative scrutiny and do more to restrict the influence of S&P and its peers in financial markets.
Keith_McClary wrote:Well, so far they're just "in the crosshairs":Keith_McClary wrote:S&P Offices Demolished by Cruise Missile
S&P Is Facing a Bipartisan Backlash in WashingtonStandard & Poor's downgrade of the U.S. government's credit rating has created something few thought possible: a bipartisan consensus in Washington.
Unfortunately for S&P, the rating firm is the one in the crosshairs. Democrats and Republicans in Congress are gearing up to put it under investigative scrutiny and do more to restrict the influence of S&P and its peers in financial markets.
(WSJ paywalled, but seemed to show entire article).
americandream wrote:China challenging the US.........
Methinks not. China is owned by Western capitalism
smiley wrote:americandream wrote:China challenging the US.........
Methinks not. China is owned by Western capitalism
Perhaps we will later recognize this downgrade as such an event. What I do know is that last weekend I saw a speech of a US president that I have not witnessed in my lifetime. Even under the greatest of challenges the US presidents have been able to deliver a speech of unity, defiance and on the path forward, Obama came no further than reflecting on the current situation, seeking excuses for it happening, and seeking arguments to downplay its importance.
smiley wrote:americandream wrote:China challenging the US.........
Methinks not. China is owned by Western capitalism
If you would have said to any British resident in 1760 that one day they would loose world domination to one of their former colonies, he would probably laugh at you and give you a similar answer as you just did.
Greece, England, Italy, Japan, France, the Netherlands, Russia, all these countries have had the position of "leader of the civilised world" for a period of time. China itself has held this position for many centuries. All it takes is weakness of the leading nation and the strength of another to reverse these positions, and that does not always involve a war.
Right now we have such a moment in time. The US is arguably not in the best of shapes (being economically struck and internally divided), while China both has the size and momentum to pose a challenge. Moreover the rest of the world Europe,Russia and the Middle East, are bystanders as they are occupied with their own problems.
PrestonSturges wrote:I always sort of thought the Chinese had capitalism while Europeans were still banging rocks together.
PrestonSturges wrote:smiley wrote:americandream wrote:China challenging the US.........
Methinks not. China is owned by Western capitalism
Perhaps we will later recognize this downgrade as such an event. What I do know is that last weekend I saw a speech of a US president that I have not witnessed in my lifetime. Even under the greatest of challenges the US presidents have been able to deliver a speech of unity, defiance and on the path forward, Obama came no further than reflecting on the current situation, seeking excuses for it happening, and seeking arguments to downplay its importance.
Unity with what? The Tea Party?
Do they still think that was victory? And in what sense? It's like a parent determined to prevent their kid from graduating high school so they can say "See I knew you'd fail," and then taking a victory lap. People understand that sort of dysfunction at a gut level as the person or relative you cut out of your life entirely. The Tea Party is the relative you take out a restraining order on.
americandream wrote:PrestonSturges wrote:I always sort of thought the Chinese had capitalism while Europeans were still banging rocks together.
Mercantilism, not capitalism. The heart of capitalism lies in the unwritten common law rules on title unique to the Anglo-Saxon.
PrestonSturges wrote:americandream wrote:PrestonSturges wrote:I always sort of thought the Chinese had capitalism while Europeans were still banging rocks together.
Mercantilism, not capitalism. The heart of capitalism lies in the unwritten common law rules on title unique to the Anglo-Saxon.
I'm guessing the Chinese got that stuff written down about 1000 years before the Europeans, in addition to the Chinese inventing clocks, oil wells, gun powder, rockets, and the printing press.
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