[Plantagenet]

Wealth is created by working people making useful things by hand if necessary. The problem is the rich are taking the wealth created by the people and keeping it for themselves ....

I'm really enjoying your posts on the debt issue, Novus. You are saying a lot of important things. However, the Marxist idea that wealth is "created by working people making useful things" vastly oversimplifies the actual nature of modern economies.

Yes, working people create wealth through their labor. But wealth can also take the form of gold, silver, diamonds, rubies, etc.

Farm ownership conveys wealth. So does the ownership of trailerparks, oyster farms, business parks or almost any kind of real estate.

Oil in the ground conveys wealth, and so does the ownership of natural gas or coal or a woodlot or any kind of energy.

And even ownership of stocks creates wealth. Just ask Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.

[vision-master]

To acknowledge these two realities is wake up from the Matrix. There is no spoon. There is no debt. It is just an illusion we need to wake up from.

This is why OWS is gaining ground. The sheeple are awaking...... TPTB are scared, very scared.

[Sixstrings]

Wealth is created by working people making useful things by hand if necessary. The problem is the rich are taking the wealth created by the people and keeping it for themselves ....

I'm really enjoying your posts on the debt issue, Novus. You are saying a lot of important things. However, the Marxist idea that wealth is "created by working people making useful things" vastly oversimplifies the actual nature of modern economies.

Yes, working people create wealth through their labor. But wealth can also take the form of gold, silver, diamonds, rubies, etc.

Farm ownership conveys wealth. So does the ownership of trailerparks, oyster farms, business parks or almost any kind of real estate.

Oil in the ground conveys wealth, and so does the ownership of natural gas or coal or a woodlot or any kind of energy.

And even ownership of stocks creates wealth. Just ask Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.

We're getting WAY too theoretical here. Bottom line is that income and wealth disparity is out of whack in the US:



Let's not muddy the waters with Marx and the nature of wealth blah blah blah..

WE NEED A HEALTHIER RATIO OF INCOME EQUALITY TO HAVE A HEALTHIER SOCIETY. It's as simple as that, it's not about communism and Marx, the nation is becoming impoverished and the fat cats have so much damn money they have nothing to do with it other than pump up commodities and buy Farmville / Groupon stock. And then the damn market still needs propped up with Fed printing press money anyway. All the while, the great bulk of America is rotting.

The other big problem we have is that fiat capitalism itself is dying.. this is end stage capitalism, worldwide.. debts are going exponential now regardless of how much austerity we do -- we have to print more and more just to service existing debt and provide system liquidity on top of that. But it's a negative debt trap now, new money isn't really being created just more and more debt, which needs more printing to service it and on and on.

It's math. It's inescapable, and will all end in tears.

[careinke]

It's math. It's inescapable, and will all end in tears.

Not for me, I believe in getting off the tracks before the train comes roaring through.

[ItalyRules]

This debt has to be written off in the near future as the can no longer be kicked down the road.

The debt will not be written off as it is impossible to reconcile all the financial activity. It's like a poker game where no one actually kept the bank straight and there is not enough money to cover all the chips.

They dicovered this in 2008. So they all decided to pretend everything still had value even though no one could trade it as there was no market.

To return to the poker game analogy, everyone decided to keep the chips even though they could not be exchanged for anything. And continue to pretend they are assets.

You want to bring them down? Point out the emperor has no clothes and refuse to pay.

[ItalyRules]

The latest mortage scam. The Banks don't have the original paperwork, as it was sliced and diced and sold as derivitives.

So what banks are doing is contacting homeowners and claiming they now hold their mortgage and need the homeowner to sign new papers saying the owe the bank the balance of their mortgage.

Don't sign. Demand proof they hold your mortgage. They don't have it. If they had it, they wouldn't need you to sign anything.

They are trying to recreate a paper trail that does not now exist. You the homeowner have more of a claim on your home than the banks at this point.

The banks have been losing these cases in court.

[gollum]

Ecological collapse will find its way into every corner of society. The wealthy and the super wealthy need to eat just like anyone else. A hundred million in the bank, 5 cars, a mansion, a yacht, and so forth, but no food on the table and the wealthy will be demanding social reform with the rest of us!

We saw this in the rationing that occured after Katrina in New Orleans. Fights broke out because wealthy people were trying to demand more of their fair share of rations. As we destroy the ecological supports for society, the rich will suffer as well.

Right now "wealth" is seen as big bank accounts, fancy cars and houses, big screen TVs, vacations to Europe. Years from now I'm betting wealth will be good firearms, farm implements, gold, silver, land. I'm thinking a fair share of people who feel "wealthy" will soon be discovering they are not as wealthy as they had once believed.

[Rod_Cloutier]

Banned commercial from Switzerland about banking corruption, the tide is turning:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f5_1397688607

[PrestonSturges]

Perhaps suppression of the dead and illegal votes. I guess you have to start that voter suppression crap early because you know O is going to lose big time

I was just enjoying Fish's incoherent hallucinations from 2011....

[Keith_McClary]

Now we are seeing entire European countries becoming debt slaves to the EU central bank---first Greece and Ireland, then Portugal and Spain, and now Italy.

And next Ukraine?