[careinke]

...Military/Medical-Industrial Complex....

I like it, can I use it?

[Pops]

Right on, OF, careful those blinders don't give you a rash.

Perfectly normal for scores of millions to decide they no longer need to work, why didn't I think of that?

Maybe they decided to take some flower arranging classes instead? Poetry composition perhaps.

<snort>

[Pops]

Oh yeah, one other thing ... A lot of the people who had jobs 5 years ago were construction workers building housing during the housing bubble.

Wait, I thought you just said everyone had decided to quit working voluntarily and were off enjoying themselves writing haiku and doing the Appalachian Trail?

Either they just decided they didn't want to work anymore or they do but can't, which is it?


Hint: 50% low income/ 20% working for poverty level wages/highest extreme poverty level ever

[copious.abundance]

^
I was responding to something more specific:

you always manage to leave off that list those people that would love to work, but whom are no longer considered worth hiring.

That does not include the retiring baby boomers and new stay-at-home moms, which is an entirely different category.

[kublikhan]

For a lot of them, it's because they majored in Ethnic Studies, Sustainability Studies, Sociology or some similarly useless degree, learned nothing useful, once managed to get a job as a secretary or government researcher somewhere, got laid off during the recession, but now can't find a job because they have useless skills from a useless degree. So they spend their time nowadays participating in the "Occupy [insert city here]" protests. Meanwhile there are some 600K manufacturing jobs going begging, not to mention countless openings in the oil fields of North Dakota and south Texas, but these people don't want jobs like that because they aren't used to actually using their brain to do something halfway hard, or they don't want to do hard physical work, or they don't want to do jobs like those because it isn't something that will Help Save The World. Boo hoo hoo.

This "manufacturing skills gap" issue is decades old and you are only telling one side of the story. There is another side:

In manufacturing, the skills problem dates at least to the 1970s and 1980s, when companies began automating factories and outsourcing production. As a result, manufacturers found they did not have jobs for the people leaving their in-house training programmes, some of which were then scrapped.

Some big manufacturers still train in-house, including Boeing, the aerospace manufacturer, which spends $80m a year on training its existing workforce. But not all do. “Technology moves fast and most companies don’t have the money or resources to pay for extensive retraining,” said Sir James Dyson, the British household appliances engineer.

Without in-house training programmes, companies have often been left looking for staff with specific skills. “A generation ago, employers would hire and train employees. Now, they demand trained workers,” says Peter Cappelli, a professor of management at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton business school.

“The skills gap is largely a figment of companies’ imagination,” says Mr Cappelli. “They cannot find workers to do the very specific tasks they want done. That is different from not being able to find capable workers.”

Many companies are realising they need to take the initiative in collaborating with educational institutions. Martin Swarbrick, chief executive of Bison Gear & Engineering, a Chicago manufacturer with 250 staff that makes industrial motors, says his company has had such a programme in place for years and it has helped him offset the skills gap. “We’ve done a lot of promoting from within,” he says. “A lot of our people started on the shop floor and now they’re completing their Masters degrees.”

Skills gap hobbles US employers

In the previous generation, a capable worker was able to land a job and go through in-house training programs to get the training the company required. Now, companies are demanding not just capable workers, but workers who already possess all of the skill sets they need, so they can bypass the time and expense of training new workers. So now the burden is on the worker to keep his skills up-to-date. Technology is changing everyday, and employee's acquired skillsets become obsolete. Companies should be offering more training programs to keep employee skills sharp. Not laying off capable workers with obsolete skills and expecting the market to cough up a highly trained worker on demand to suite their latest needs. If the cost is too high to maintain their own training program, they can partner with educational institutions.

[copious.abundance]

One of the problems - and of course there's nothing anyone can do about it - is that the manufacturing jobs going begging are ones which require a higher skill set than in days of yore, which is why a lot of manufacturers can't train them on-the-job anymore. Not even Boeing gives out degrees in mechanical engineering (nor should they), and acquiring the skills for a machinst these days requires a skill set which, at least at one technical college near me, is a 2-year degree. Your typical machine shop does not have the time to train somone for 2 years just to give someone basic skills, so one can hardly blame them for not training on-the-job.

The other problem is the lack of willingness for a lot of young people these days to go into these professions. Somewhere recently I read a survey which said that only 3% (I think) of high school students wanted to go into manufacturing.

[peripato]

Has the job creation rate not been negative for the past four years as shown by the elevated level of unemployment in the graph below?

Does that not indicate there are today fewer people employed in jobs that would be eligible to file for unemployment insurance when the do get laid-off?


Recovery indeed! What a bunch of bollocks!

Uhhh ... hello?? Your own chart shows about 1-1/2 of those past 4 years in a recession. A recession, by definition, is not a recovery. Jobs get lost during recessions. Since the end of the recession in mid-2009, jobs have been gained. The recovery/expansion is only about 2-1/2 years old, so it's rather disingenuous to cite the last four years.

Why don't you just answer the question for once? Is it because you can't?

It's obvious to all, even the Fed, that the unemployment rate has been highly elevated these past four years and that this is a concern to them (apparently) as it erodes the notion of 'recovery' flim flam merchants like to peddle. I mean, how can there possibly be a recovery, if unemployment remains so high 2-1/2 after the 'great recession' supposedly ended? Enough of a concern to contemplate formally firing up the printing presses again, to maintain that illusion of recovery, that's what.

[Lore]

One of the problems - and of course there's nothing anyone can do about it - is that the manufacturing jobs going begging are ones which require a higher skill set than in days of yore, which is why a lot of manufacturers can't train them on-the-job anymore. Not even Boeing gives out degrees in mechanical engineering (nor should they), and acquiring the skills for a machinst these days requires a skill set which, at least at one technical college near me, is a 2-year degree. Your typical machine shop does not have the time to train somone for 2 years just to give someone basic skills, so one can hardly blame them for not training on-the-job.

The other problem is the lack of willingness for a lot of young people these days to go into these professions. Somewhere recently I read a survey which said that only 3% (I think) of high school students wanted to go into manufacturing.

It just may be that the youth of America hesitate to entertain such jobs because millions of their parents have just been recently laid off from manufacturing in the last couple of decades. Not much incentive from anybody's point of view.

I also love it when corporate America whines about not being able to find highly skilled workers already trained in the professions required, but are unwilling to contribute financially to developing those skill sets needed. Of which they would be the great beneficiary.

In other words let the individual who they will utilize spend their money for the high cost of such education, so in the end, business won't be out of pocket when it comes time to eventually farm out their jobs too. While the now befuddled and broke worker has yet to pay off the cost of their education in a area that wouldn't qualify them to sell shoes.

Meanwhile, US corporations sit on over two trillion dollars domestically with an equal amount stashed in overseas banks that they refuse to repatriate, but which is certainly destined to cross the palms of fractionally paid foreign agents and workers.

[eXpat]

Another example about how recovered us economy is
Who you gonna call? Detroit police stations to close to the public for 16 hours a day

Detroit, which has one of the highest crime rates of large American cities, will close the doors of its police stations to the public from 4pm each day, reopening 16 hours later at 8am.

From Monday, many residents wanting to report crimes will not be able to speak face-to-face with an officer as the cash-strapped city struggles to slash costs.

Instead, members of the public will have to phone or go online to report an incident, in what has been dubbed 'virtual precincts'.
Public-facing desks at the eight stations that represent the eight precincts or districts of the Detroit Police Department will be closed during crucial hours.

In addition to cutting public access hours at police stations, the department will lay off about 100 police officers in order to trigger federal grants.

Those grants would pay for the immediate re-hiring of the affected officers.

The latest downsizing plan is already reigniting criticism of the police department.
'I was a police officer in Detroit for 35 years and I can tell you they have wasted money for 35 years," John Barr, a representative for the Police Officers Association of Michigan, said in a telephone interview.
'It's pathetic, just pathetic.'
Detroit's police department, along with other critical services, has shouldered considerable cuts in recent years. The city has scrambled to reduce costs and structure in the face of a shrinking population, escalating legacy costs, and lower tax revenues.

Mayor Dave Bing recently laid out a plan to cut $258 million over the next 18 months, $102 million of which needs to be cut by June.
The city estimates it could run out of money within the next 90 days if immediate action is not taken.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082445/Who-gonna-Detroit-police-stations-close-doors-public-16-hours-day.html

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45875696/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TwYN-V30uSo

[eXpat]

Again: US $25 Million Away From Debt Ceiling Breach
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-we-go-again-us-25-million-away-debt-ceiling

[Plantagenet]

Again: US $25 Million Away From Debt Ceiling Breach
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-we-go-again-us-25-million-away-debt-ceiling

Don't worry-----be happy.

Its time to go shopping with all the money we are saving with Obama's two-month-long tax cut!!!!!

[copious.abundance]

You can tell the doomers are desperate when:

1. They are posting anecdotes about troubles in a city which has been going down the dumps for decades, as if that were some sort of proof the economy is not getting better.
2. They are posting articles about the debt ceiling being neared - as if that also wasn't happening when Ronald Reagan was president and basically under every president for the past hundred years, and under just about all economic conditions.

[Cog]

$15 trillion of debt is a lot of money.

[KingM]

This thread shows signs of dying as reality trumps argument. Can we officially declare that the double dip never happened, whether or not we argue that the recovery was anemic? At this point, the next recession will clearly not be associated with the previous one, even if that comes as soon as next quarter.

My official prediction is that 2012 will start as well as any year since before the recession, then choke off to around 1% growth as oil skyrockets in response. I think we're likely to see this pattern repeat again and again as oil becomes more scarce up until the point where alternatives take up a much larger portion of the overall energy mix.

[Lore]

This thread shows signs of dying as reality trumps argument. Can we officially declare that the double dip never happened, whether or not we argue that the recovery was anemic? At this point, the next recession will clearly not be associated with the previous one, even if that comes as soon as next quarter.

My official prediction is that 2012 will start as well as any year since before the recessions yer., then choke off to around 1% growth as oil skyrockets in response. I think we're likely to see this pattern repeat again and again as oil becomes more scarce up until the point where alternatives take up a much larger portion of the overall energy mix.

The future depression will most definitely be associated with this recession. Credit starved nations have no choice but to deleverage. What you're seeing is the last act in a poor theatrical production. World wide debt is crushing and we have yet to see the inflation monster on the horizon due to demand.

While we struggle with debt here in th US and as a side note, I expect to see more big box retail to fold like a cheap tent this coming year. Besides Sears, look to Barnes & Noble, Best Buy and a few of the Department retailers. This will not only effect traditional retail service jobs, but will severely impact state and local tax revenue as more sales shift to online. There will be a cry from many states to enforce new tax legislation.

There is little doubt the next leg down, globally this year, will happen when the European Union starts to come apart at the seams and Europe itself falls into depression. This will trigger a world wide circular firing squad of economic chain reactions. The financial contagion will be horrific.

[Quinny]

16 hours from 4pm till 8am is seen as normal in many of our local stations. If it's every station than it's an issue, but many small stations are manned with no callers.

Another example about how recovered us economy is
Who you gonna call? Detroit police stations to close to the public for 16 hours a day

Detroit, which has one of the highest crime rates of large American cities, will close the doors of its police stations to the public from 4pm each day, reopening 16 hours later at 8am.

From Monday, many residents wanting to report crimes will not be able to speak face-to-face with an officer as the cash-strapped city struggles to slash costs.

Instead, members of the public will have to phone or go online to report an incident, in what has been dubbed 'virtual precincts'.
Public-facing desks at the eight stations that represent the eight precincts or districts of the Detroit Police Department will be closed during crucial hours.

In addition to cutting public access hours at police stations, the department will lay off about 100 police officers in order to trigger federal grants.

Those grants would pay for the immediate re-hiring of the affected officers.

The latest downsizing plan is already reigniting criticism of the police department.
'I was a police officer in Detroit for 35 years and I can tell you they have wasted money for 35 years," John Barr, a representative for the Police Officers Association of Michigan, said in a telephone interview.
'It's pathetic, just pathetic.'
Detroit's police department, along with other critical services, has shouldered considerable cuts in recent years. The city has scrambled to reduce costs and structure in the face of a shrinking population, escalating legacy costs, and lower tax revenues.

Mayor Dave Bing recently laid out a plan to cut $258 million over the next 18 months, $102 million of which needs to be cut by June.
The city estimates it could run out of money within the next 90 days if immediate action is not taken.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082445/Who-gonna-Detroit-police-stations-close-doors-public-16-hours-day.html

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45875696/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TwYN-V30uSo

[eXpat]

California's paltry deficit is $9.2 Billions
Surprise! The New State Budget

The unveiling of a governor's state budget every January is an annual, and well rehearsed, ritual: budget decisions are made in late December, budget goes to the printer, gubernatorial staffers privately brief some stakeholder groups (some who leak to the press), governor calls a news conference.

Yeah. So much for the playbook. On Thursday afternoon, after a copy of his proposal somehow was uploaded to a state website (oops), Governor Jerry Brown quickly summoned reporters and offered up the entire 2012-13 blueprint -- one that pegs the deficit at $9.2 billion and includes some major changes and cuts to health and human services.

"The California government is under stress," said Brown in his Capitol Q&A with reporters. "We're spending, in real terms, what we were in the 70s, under Ronald Reagan. So we're doing the best we can and it is a hardship."

The $137.3 billion spending plan offers yet more controversial spending cuts, but ones that appear to be rooted in some actual retooling of existing state government practices -- perhaps a sign that Brown knows that the system, as it exists, doesn't give him as many options.

Tops on that 'retooling' list would be the welfare-to-work program CalWorks. Brown proposes to cut $1.4 billion out of the program by reducing the assistance to families that fail to meet federal work requirements. In many cases, that's a cut from four years of eligibility for benefits down to two years.

http://blogs.kqed.org/capitalnotes/2012/01/05/surprise-the-new-state-budget/

[Plantagenet]

Can we officially declare that the double dip never happened, whether or not we argue that the recovery was anemic?

The double dip is happening right now in Europe.

It remains to be seen whether or not financial contagion will spread from the EU to the USA.

[ralfy]

Not just $15 trillion in debt, but also $30 trillion in corporate debt, around $10 trillion in household debt, at some point personal debt even reaching 150 pct of disposable income, 40 years of trade deficits, around 70 pct of the economy dependent on consumer spending with 70 pct relying on the service sector for work, U.S. banks exposed to over $370 trillion in unregulated derivatives, government future liabilities at around $77 trillion to over $200 trillion, and all part of a global economy with over $600 trillion to $1.2 quadrillion in unregulated derivatives.

Given that, the best we can say that any recovery from a problem caused by increasing debt can only involve...increasing debt.

[Pops]

Just to recap:

The BLS reported 200,000 new jobs (42,000 of which were part time workers for places like FedX and UPS and will be gone next month) and an unemployment rate of 8.5%. Twenty percent of the jobs previously reported for November were revised away, leaving only 100,000. For the year, the economy added 1.64 million total non-farm jobs and the economy has 6.0 million fewer jobs than in 2007. The number of people not in the labor force (and thus not officially unemployed) is up 7.5 million since 2007 and now stands at 13.1 million. Labor force participation is now at a 27 year low of 64%,The real unemployment rate, using a realistic labor force participation rate, would be 11.4%. Following the BLS approach, when the participation rate reaches 58.5% there will be no unemployed people in the US and the stimulus will have worked.

Links at Some Assembly Required - add him to your reader.


Forgot this: