[SeaGypsy]

Anyone knowing anything about IQ test theory knows it is highly debatable whether a test can be devised without significant cultural bias. For instance, those dumbass blackfellers (as they call themselves) are often speakers of 16 languages from several distinct language families. Ancient Pitjanjatjarra traders sometimes spoke hundreds of languages & could walk unaided from Central Australia virtually across the whole continent carrying huge bundles of Pituri, a potent native nicotine source. Renown as among the worlds best trackers & bush survivalists, their knowledge is the basis of Australia's military's specialist bush training, for which countries around the world send their soldiers- being known as the best desert & savannah survival skills training available in the world. They also had extensive knowledge of how genetics works & avoiding inbreeding in small isolated groups.

IQ tests are bullshit. (Mine supposedly mid 140's )

[PrestonSturges]

Wow, we could spend a week on eugenics theory, race war porn like "The Turner Diaries," nazi theories on race mixing and the Nuremberg laws, all the stuff in Mein Kampf about the "niggerdization of Germany," as well as the antisemitic conspiracy theory of "political correctness." Mostly it's just how startling how this crap has moved into mainstream conservative thought.

[SeaGypsy]

My reading on the history of Eugenics tells me it has been a part of mainstream thought to varying extents for about 100 years.

[KaiserJeep]

All the Eugenics BS, all the Nazi propaganda, all the Liberal BS thrown around by the Democratic party, countless other writings - all obsoleted by the Human Genome Project. Most of what you thought you knew about Africans, Asians, Caucasians, all obsolete.

Surprise there are eight recognized African races, at least five comprise what we thought of as Asian (maybe six if you count the Ainu), eight varieties of Caucasians, and the Aborigines and Pygmies, not closely related to any other groups.

Skin pigmentation turns out to be the least important of the morphological differences, because races with differing skin tones share genes to varying degrees, often with more in common than those of differing skin pigmentation. Measurable differences in intelligence, physical strength, endurance, tolerance for various diseases, resistance to cold, resistance to heat, fertility, sleep hours required, etc. etc.

The new information is ten years old or even less. Our cultures and legal codes will be a century or more changing to match.

That is, IF we can bring ourselves to talk about the topic of Race. IF we can let go of the PC BS we have today.

[SeaGypsy]

If anyone is being PC it's you KJ. You are still yet to state a position, just baiting others. I hear chicken noises....

[PrestonSturges]

The word "eugenics" was coined by the great Francis Galton, Darwin's cousin. He discovered many key concepts of probability and statistics, he invented the personality profile test, and he defined the basis of clinical trials. Galton realized at a very personal level there is a fine line between madness and genius, having had a couple serious breakdowns in his life.

Of course, eugenics peaked 25 years before DNA was defined as the basis of heredity. Now we knowthat there is probably 100 genes that effect intelligence.

Hitler screwed it up beyond repair with a crackpot concept that mixed heredity, nationalism, patriotism, and "national spirit" to argue that immigrants and jews can never assimilate This was a pretty mianstream opinion in the US right up until Pearl Harbor Day. Today, the Nazi vision is best articulated by Dinesh d'Souza in his criticisms of Obama as someone who can be authentically American because he is contaminated by his father's African blood.

[Cid_Yama]

All the Eugenics BS...

You're the one who posted the links to it. Frankly, I think you're just a moron who can't think for himself. Someone who wants to believe that nonsense, but feels he needs to convince others to support his own semi-convictions.

The word despicable comes to mind.

[sparky]

.
If one take "race" as being variations of the human genome then it is apropriate
several grouping exist , some from the "y"chromosome for the paternal line , some from the mother mitochondial DNA
the "mother" clock is quite variable and would put the earliest common maternal ancestor at around 200.000years ago
of course ,this women , mother of all human living , got called Eve
the paternal earliest common ancestor seems to be only 60.000 years old , paternal lines are very competitives

My haplogroup is R1b1 , that's the atlantic group , very prevalent in Western Europe ,
it has been traced down to ice age hunters
in the East the proportion of R2b increase and R1b decrease
Scandinavia got a weird one
Ultimately , we all are from Africa ( probably)

[KaiserJeep]

Cid, the mainstream of Eugenics thought has been as obsoleted by the HGP as were the Nazi rants. It broke the hearts of all the skinheads to find out that there was no "Aryan" race found by the HGP. There are two basic requirements for Eugenics: the desire to improve the human species, and the means of doing so which amounts to forcing some people not to reproduce, while encouraging the "right" kind of people to do so.

That last two don't sit well by me. I am all about personal freedom, and I would take up arms to exterminate a government that attempted to tell people whether or not they could reproduce. Which is why I bear a great deal of contempt for the present government of China.

My personal beliefs about reproduction are that it is a personal decision, and you should limit yourself to your own replacement, i.e. have one or two kids. No, I'm not an advocate of Eugenics.

I would like to point out that modern Western societies ARE in fact practicing Dysgenics - the polar opposite of Eugenics - when they encourage the reproduction of people who cannot work, don't know how to form a family structure to nurture offspring, and are otherwise parasites on productive society. We have been doing so for about 50 years, and there are groups in the inner cities where three generations have never contributed to our society.

The results are evident: We have greater and greater numbers of non-productive citizens, we have increasing levels of violence, we have total idiots in politics and in the media who refuse to acknowledge the truth about the abject failure of affirmative action, head start programs for minorities, special schools, different standards for minorities, etc. etc. In fact, what we are doing in the inner cities amounts to an effective institutionalization, where minorities prey on one another, and innocent lives are lost. I have seen entirely too many TV news videos about kids who were killed or injured in shootings in Oakland on the local news. I have sat on too many juries where we weighed the evidence that one gang banger killed another. The only places in America with even higher levels of violence than the inner cities are the real prisons where we keep the really hard cases.

We know that what we are doing: welfare, counseling, schooling, etc. is not working. Yet we are still doing it, and conditions in the inner cities are worsening. Frantic liberals are endlessly hunting for ways to integrate the alienated minorities, and not finding anything. There is a Race War coming in America. It will be the opening act of the economic crash that comes when the oil runs out.

Obama did not write Directive No. 3025.18 so he could order the National Guard forces into the suburbs or rural America. He will be suppressing the inner city minorities after the Race War begins. I don't doubt that it will pain him to do so, but we simply don't have a working solution and things are getting worse rapidly.

I think the take away message is: Don't live near a big city.

[SeaGypsy]

Yeah go KJ! So in the city all these races are going to gang up together for the ultimate fight challenge, leaving any other connections as comrade or foe, based on nothing but race. I think your understanding of group psychology & leadership dynamics limits your view. I'm watching white Americans protesting alongside black Americans on my TV news right now & I'm in Australia. The world has changed & the situation is hugely dynamic & in flux.

My guess is you are a coon hater who never had or would have a black friend.

[MD]

This thread is all about people recognizing their racist "instincts".

The first step is admitting "I am a Racist."

The second step is recognizing that you are powerless to change that fact.

The third step is embracing positive outcomes from your inherent racism.

The fourth is to act accordingly.

Steps five through twelve are up to someone else. Four steps is about all the energy I wish to expend.

This thread has spiraled off in predictable directions, which is why I posted it in the Open Forum where only us chickens can peck at it inside our own coop.

y'all are doing fine, except for the whining @#$% in the corner. You need to take your ass back to the top and re think things, please.

ps: Please view the link. If you begin to laugh or at least chuckle, then you are probably ok. If it makes you angry instead, then you need to go to step one.

[KaiserJeep]

OK, I laughed.

SG, my Momma taught me that those that apply the derogatory labels are the true Racists. Even though she came from rural Arkansas, she never used those words and would not tolerate them from any of her children.

Of course I have had black friends. I even found a couple jobs at the company I worked at. I had too much respect to tell them the truth: the boss came back from HQ one day and said we had to hire two minorities, they were "affirmative action" hires.

Now I'll say what George Carlin called "one of the ten things you are not allowed to say in America": The most prejudiced people I have ever encountered in my long life are Black.

The poor can earn money. The ignorant can acquire knowledge. The dishonest or the cruel or the weak can correct these character flaws. One disability that can never be cured, removed, or ignored is a dark skin. I understand what they feel when looking in a mirror. But I cannot help them in any way other than by pretending it does not matter, which is frustratingly ineffective.

[SeaGypsy]

A person who automatically defines black skin as a disability but calls me a racist for using the language is clearly coming from a cultural immersion & therefore is a brainwashing victim. I do happen to have a thing for cross cultural relationships. My children are Ashkenazi Jewish & SE Asian hybrids. Im thinking Han Chinese for 3rd.

[KaiserJeep]

I did nothing "automatically". That comment about black skin was meant to indicate that there is in our society, a social disadvantage that cannot be overcome by those who bear it. That makes me a realist, not a racist. If you want to deny the existence of racism in the world, feel free - but I think you are smarter than that.

[Sixstrings]

The new information is ten years old or even less. Our cultures and legal codes will be a century or more changing to match.

That is, IF we can bring ourselves to talk about the topic of Race. IF we can let go of the PC BS we have today.

Kaiser -- what kind of "legal codes" do you want changed, based on "new information" about race?

[SeaGypsy]

The keyword is OUR society KJ. Brainwashed.

[PrestonSturges]

A simpler form of eugenics would be to prevent religious people from having children, since it is the religious people who are obsessed with starting wars.

[dinopello]

Is there such as thing as racial ambiguity ? People who have no idea what race they are ? (no fair saying human race). Or, does everyone have to belong to a race?



Actually some interesting stuff out there on it.

[KaiserJeep]

Scientific accuracy bows to Political Correctness .... again:

James Watson selling Nobel prize ‘because no-one wants to admit I exist’

World-famous biologist James Watson said he is selling the Nobel Prize medal he won in 1962 for discovering the structure of DNA because he has been ostracised and needs the money

By Keith Perry

James Watson, the world-famous biologist who was shunned by the scientific community after linking intelligence to race, said he is selling his Nobel Prize because he is short of money after being made a pariah.

Mr. Watson said he is auctioning the Nobel Prize medal he won in 1962 for discovering the structure of DNA, because "no-one really wants to admit I exist".

Auctioneer Christie’s said the gold medal, the first Nobel Prize to be sold by a living recipient, could fetch as much as $3.5m (£2.23m) when it is auctioned in New York on Thursday. The reserve price is $2.5m.

Mr. Watson told the Financial Times he had become an “unperson” after he “was outed as believing in IQ” in 2007 and said he would like to use money from the sale to buy a David Hockney painting.

Mr. Watson, who shared the 1962 Nobel Prize for uncovering the double helix structure of DNA, sparked an outcry in 2007 when he suggested that people of African descent were inherently less intelligent than white people.

* * *

Mr. Watson – who insisted he was “not a racist in a conventional way” – said it had been “stupid” of him to not realise that his comments on the intelligence of African people would end up in an article.

“I apologise . . . [the journalist] somehow wrote that I worried about the people in Africa because of their low IQ – and you’re not supposed to say that.”

In 2007, the Sunday Times ran an interview with Dr Watson in which he said he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really”.

He told the newspaper people wanted to believe that everyone was born with equal intelligence but that those “who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/11261872/James-Watson-selling-Nobel-prize-because-no-one-wants-to-admit-I-exist.html

I have two final comments about the race/IQ controversy, and afterwards I am walking away from the thread and the debate.

1) You can pretend forever that there is no linkage between genetics and IQ, and it never will become true. There doubtless is some cultural bias to all IQ tests, because we can devise tests that display modest differences based upon the native culture of the test subject. However the majority of the difference is genetic, and there are somewhere roughly around 100 genes so far identified out of 19,000 total that are linked to IQ. The random mix of those 100 genes is why for all races the IQ scores assume a bell shaped curve. (The total number of genes in the human genome has been revised downward continuously over the last decade, from 100,000+ to 19,000, which is an estimate published July 3, 2014.) Unfortunately, the center peak of that bell shaped curve is on a different number for each of the three or the twenty-three or how ever many races you choose to recognize.

2) Pretending that no differences exist is simply not good public policy and it never will be. I'm nobody in particular, a middle class working American with a BSEE degree from 1977. Read through this thread and notice how I was repeatedly attacked by those who insist that the PC policy on race is reality, seemingly by definition alone, and in total defiance of the mass of actual Scientific evidence saying it is total BS. Not to mention - if you are honest with yourself - a lifetime of actual personal experience that confirms this. Now read the totality of the article above: The genius-level mind of the man who won the Nobel Prize for discovering DNA is also being attacked for the exact same reason as am I.

Reality, what a concept. You can accept it or deny it, but I would suggest to you that acceptance is better mental health than denial.

[SeaGypsy]

Is there such as thing as racial ambiguity ? People who have no idea what race they are ? (no fair saying human race). Or, does everyone have to belong to a race?



Actually some interesting stuff out there on it.

The Private Eugenicist in me finds racial ambiguity extremely attractive. My favourite cities in the world are those where much cross breeding has gone on for a long time. Singapore has, to my eye, the most attractive women on the planet- hybrids of Euro, Indian, Chinese & Malay- impossible to label but often stunningly beautiful.