[Sixstrings]

I was a more ardent racist when I lived in the hood. The good news is that I managed to bounce, and I'm out of the hood. Probably for good. My town is white to an almost comical percentage, and the percentage of black people is less than 2%. I sometimes go weeks without seeing a black person in my town. When I do, I mentally check off a box that I played Where's Leroy (much like Where's Waldo, but lots more fun at museums and craft beer festivals).

My local area has gone downhill over the years. Not California. But anyhow, it's gone downhill around here for sure, not quite iron bars on the windows but it's getting there.

My complaint isn't just minorities -- it's just a poor people problem. We've got as many poor whites as poor minorities. Everyone is just so poor.

And then, one hour away, there's a magical little town where everyone is lily white and it's like Pleasantville and folk riding bicycles and the sun is shining and birds are singing. It's really nice and I like it there, I just don't have $400,000 laying around to live there.

So I get what you're saying, and with more ghetto comes more aggressive police, and it's oppressive over all -- raggedy people, poh-lease everywhere, dirt, grime.

I have to ask you a question, though Ayoob.

You've told us negative things about minorities, and that you used to be an ardent racist.

Can you tell us what's good about black culture, and latino culture? If you can't name what's been good, about black culture, then maybe you are a racist. Just as a person that can't find anything good to say about Russians would be a "russophobe." One-sided, all negative bigotry is irrational -- it's only half the facts.

[Sixstrings]

Somebody, in fact a great many somebodies, decided that the general public could not handle the truth, and therefore that the scientific facts about race and intelligence - just one of the many things that were measured and found to differ from one race to another - were best witheld.

What are you hinting at? Are you saying black people are inferior, genetically? That they have lower IQ's?

What's the point of your posts along these lines, are you talking about blacks or are you talking about some other races, or is there a hierarchy of races and there's some race that has the highest IQ?

I'll tell ya something, Germans make trains run on time and they're efficient, but they don't laugh as much either. It takes all types to make the world go round. We don't all want to be a Denmark or Norway.

I like some African tribal music, some of those bands like Paul Simon put on his albums. And these African jazz bands. I don't even know the name of the stuff, I just have it on my pandora.

I wouldn't want a world that never had an Etta James, or a Motown, or Diana Ross or the Delphonics, or the Blues, or jazz, or Louis Armstrong, or any rock music, or any pop music, on and on and on. Black American cultural contributions are monumental, it's a massive swath of American culture which then became global culture.

I wouldn't want a world that didn't have any black comedians. I wouldn't want a world without any soul food.

And I like watching Neil DeGrasse Tyson talk about the universe. I doubt he's intellectually inferior.

And who would be next on the inferior list, after the blacks. Would it be the disabled, like Stephen Hawking? And the gays, and gypsies, and Jews?

What is the point, talking about IQ and races? What exactly is supposed to be done with this information, that you said is kept hidden and all that? So okay let's say everyone agrees with you, what's the point of that and what's done afterward?

What is it exactly you want to see done, eugenics and we all become Norwegians or something?

[SeaGypsy]

For all your eccentricity 6, you at least deserve credit for wearing your heart on your sleeve. As fickle & jittery as it might be, its fairly clear there is an actual human being there with you. KJ on the other hand is loaded & obtuse. Leaves us guessing, like how would it be to actually spend eternity in some wonky artificial gravity & everything else tin can on the edge of the Universe. Sorry 6 but this one is just a cracker.

[Sixstrings]

For all your eccentricity 6, you at least deserve credit for wearing your heart on your sleeve. As fickle & jittery as it might be, its fairly clear there is an actual human being there with you. KJ on the other hand is loaded & obtuse. Leaves us guessing, like how would it be to actually spend eternity in some wonky artificial gravity & everything else tin can on the edge of the Universe. Sorry 6 but this one is just a cracker.

I agree with him on the space stuff.

But Will Riker also played jazz trombone:



There's more to life than 1's and 0's, and the highest IQ. There's emotional intelligence, too, and intuition, and feeling.

There's spirituality and ayahuasca ( ), there's art and beauty. Jeebus Cripes, what's the point of saying highest IQ people are the best? What's the point of that? It's not even true, I know some very smart people and they are darn near aspergers syndrome and they are CARDBOARD DULL and BORING.

They have no SOUL. They can't dance!



If you go to a nightclub in Australia, you're probably listening to music that has its roots in the Black American South.

The first rock n' roll songs in history were black jazz / blues musicians that mixed it up a bit and made that leap. And white dudes listened to the "race music" and picked up on it, and the radio would play the white guys whereas it wouldn't the black artists, at first.

That's where the Beatles came from, and Elvis, they were listening to black artists. And then everything that followed.

And that's just one area of cultural contribution by blacks. They're just people, they do other things too besides sports and music, if given the equal opportunity they can be an astronomer like Neil degrasse tyson, too. I know someone smart when I hear them, and he's smart.

Frederick Douglas, in the early 1800s, was quite intelligent and eloquent and he was the original proof that no, Africans are not actually inferior. Abolitionists supported him and he gave speeches and he was proof to white folks of how horrible slavery was -- that a man so intelligent, was born of African stock not far off right off the boat from Africa. Whipped, and was a slave.

I mean, do we really have to debate this, in 2014? Has KJ never had any black colleagues or professors that he respected? Or Ayoob?

There are tribal chiefs in the African bush that are quite intelligent, and wise.

We all came from Africa to start with. Actually, there was a climate change catastrophe about 100,000 years ago and it almost wiped out homo sapiens. And then after, the species bounced back and spread out the Sinai bottleneck. The real truth is that because of this biologically recent near-extinction event, homo sapiens right now is actually not very diverse genetically. We've got a massive global population but yet we're not genetically diverse, it's actually a weakness, and it will take a lot of time to get diversity back.

Skin color and slanted eyes isn't really genetic diversity, there was more genetic diversity in Africa before that near-extinction event.

[SeaGypsy]

Man. I ain't had much white chocolate the last half my adult life. I am yet to meet a Chinese Han / Eritrian hybrid but my guess is some nice specimen are possible there. I'm a friend of the melting pot theorem. Race war looks damned stupid to me.

[Quinny]

Got it in
one Cid - worse than working class tories!

Since the 1600's in America, when landholders sought to drive a wedge between the white indentured servants and the black slaves, the US has used 'divide the lower classes' to great effect to prevent rebellion.

And from this thread it's clear that the working class whites are still too stupid to see their interests are more in common with other working class races than with the ruling class.

Prefering scraps from the table of the rich to a fair and equitable share.

I believe the correct term for that is collaborators. Like the Vichy swine in France, and the Ukrainians who joined the SS.

Perhaps Racism and Fascism somehow goes hand-in-hand, that the same type of person is attracted to both. They don't mind being slaves as long as they get to be the whip slave.

[KaiserJeep]

In answer to your questions, no, I don't think I am a racist.

My thing is that I have NO PATIENCE and NO RESPECT for POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

By all that is Holy, if Black-on-Black crime is amuch bigger problem than White-on-Black, then let us apportion each the appropriate amount of attention.

If the race baiters are whipping up a riot, then why can't the MSM condemn such behavior?

If black youths are playing the "Beat Down" game and attacking other races, let us prosecute them, and add hate crime enhancements to their sentances.

If any of our government policies, be they at Federal, State, or Local levels, are unfair to any racial group, let us address them and correct them.

I am ready to talk about seemingly forbidden topics and look for outside-the-box solutions.

We have real problems, and what we are doing is not working. So let us discuss our problems plainly and seek better solutions.

I am simply tired of pretending things that are not true, and pretending that things are getting better.

[Quinny]

I agree we have real problems, and what we are doing is not working. So let us discuss our problems plainly and seek better solutions.

So what are the problems you perceive where race is significant? And what are your solutions?

You're obviously one with the clever genes, so you should have the answers!

In answer to your questions, no, I don't think I am a racist.

My thing is that I have NO PATIENCE and NO RESPECT for POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

We have real problems, and what we are doing is not working. So let us discuss our problems plainly and seek better solutions.

[SeaGypsy]

Still looks to me like KJ is beating around the bush. Calling everyone PC but won't just blurt out WTF he is actually on about.

[Sixstrings]

Update on my first experience at interracial dating (my original post is in one of the Ferguson threads, I think).

So anyhow, race has been so much not a factor that I actually completely forgot about it!

And, I did something stupid. I was driving around with her tonight and something slipped out in a way I would normally only say to white family or a white friend.

I was talking about my brother that doesn't quite know how to act appropriately sometimes and doesn't have street smarts, and how he almost started a fight with a BLACK GUY at the restaurant over who was in line first for the soda machine.

The way I said it -- BLACK guy, emphasis on black, I knew right away I'd slipped up.

So I immediately said "oh I didn't mean how that sounded, you know it's not about race, it's ghetto people, there's ghetto white people too like rednecks and meth heads."

So she looks at me and says, "I know, but, if you have to qualify a comment like you just did then that means you did say something racial."

I didn't know what to say to that, so just kept driving.

She wasn't bothered by it though. Later on we watched Anchor Man 2 and she laughed at the part where Ron Burgundy is being a complete jerk to his black girlfriend's family.

Later I told her how there's a family rumor / legend that we have a black or mixed great-grandmother.

Race hasn't been an issue in this thing with us. We talk about a lot of things, pretty much everything but race. She is half and half, and did mention to me that the white family she was raised in "was very racist." I can tell that experience caused a lot of hurt for her and some issues. I know Obama has spoken about this and written about it, the challenge and culture clash of being mixed race and raised by a white family and not feeling like you belong. And that's what my lady friend has told me, that's the impression I get, it's like not feeling completely accepted by your own family.

I'm a sensitive guy and I'm sure not going to say anything that could make her feel bad, so I will HAVE TO WATCH IT with slip ups and the kinds of things my inner circle says. Basically, "that BLACK guy" kind of thing where you put the emphasis on black.

It would be like dating a Mexican woman, and complaining about Mexicans, you just gotta watch it.

And I really need to get this DNA test done, that swab thing you just mail off. I'm curious, I really want to know if I have some African American genetics. (I don't look it)

What if I find out, that I do? I'm too darn old to have an identity crisis, but I think i'd feel different, just to know. If I do, then my lilly white model good looks sister does too. That would sure trip her out, to know for sure, that we are actually mixed!

If I am mixed, it would be something like the great grandmother that my grandfather would never talk much about. Family rumor is that she was half cherokee, half black.

Anyhow.. back to romance.. Sixstrings is still a pretty happy guy. I've been so lonely for a long time. The companionship is nice. We have these nerdy common interests, I normally never find anyone that shares that in common. She's one of the funniest people I've ever met. We're going to start taking some trips together.

I made her dinner tonight. Baked lemon pepper tilapia, with italian herbs and parmesan and butter. Man, that stuff came out well.

[Rod_Cloutier]

I never thought I would reply to this thread, until this week when my boss told me that some contents of a work e-mail I sent out were racist.

The company I work for prides itself on communication above all else. Recently some of the sub-contractors have been hiring people who don't speak a word of English and who can't communicate with staff in any meaningful way. I brought this matter to the attention of the management, suggesting:

"If communication is our #1 priority, new employees such have at least a basic understanding of English, or be enrolled in a English as a second language course as a condition of employment."

This short statement sent to management almost led to my termination. I was subsequently given several verbal and private warnings that racism won't be tolerated. I told each of them that their isn't a racist part of me at all. That I meant just what I said, no reading into this required.

So I'm now in the doghouse at work. Apparently, it is no concern that hiring people who can't communicate, which is directly in contradiction to their established policies, is a hot potato subject that is never to be discussed.

I didn't even suggest that people who can't speak English shouldn't be hired, I just suggested they should be required to learn English to be a part of the team.

I don't get it- where did I go wrong here?

[KaiserJeep]

Quite simply, you were not Politically Correct.

Political Correctness requires that a double standard exist, higher for you as a member of the "majority" than for the particular group that the standard is intended for.

The "majority" today includes the people that came over on the Mayflower and other early ships and founded all 13 original colonies - except their Black slaves. It includes the Irish immigrants, the Polish, the Germans, the Italians, the Koreans, the various Hispanics from Europe and the Americas, the Chinese, the Japanese, and the Koreans. And everyone else who was ever an immigrant to the USA.

Each of these groups was once a despised minority in this country, then they worked and succeeded in bettering themselves in the classic fashion that pretty much happens only in the USA. The the famous "melting pot" took over, and after 3-4 generations, they became hard to distinguish from other Americans.

In 18th and 19th century America, there were two groups which were never merged into the mainstream US culture. They were the Black slaves from colonial days and the Native Americans (aka "Indians") who inhabited the country before the European settlers founded those 13 original colonies.

These two groups of people were selected for particular persecution and abuse by approximately half of the population of the USA. One of the most Racist people to ever live in the USA was a man named Andrew Jackson, the son of recent Scots and Irish immigrants and eventually the seventh president of the USA and the founder of the modern Democratic Party.

Jackson based two main planks of the Democratic party upon the continued practice of Black slavery (he was born in the Carolina colony and was a later founder of the state of Tennessee, and owned hundreds of slave on his Hermitage plantation) and secondly he favored the forced relocation of "Indians" to plantations in Oklahoma (after fighting Indians for years in his US Army career).

The primary opposition to the racist Democratic policies was the Republican Party, founded by Abraham Lincoln. The political gap between the Democrats and Republicans was vast, and resulted in the American Civil War. Nominally the South lost this war, but the Democratic party remains powerful and continues to oppress minorities, while paying lip service to racial equality.

The racist policies of the Democrats are "Affirmative Action", "Hate Crime" enhancement penalties to existing laws, selective enforcement of anti-discrimination statutes according to the race of the offendor/victim, etc. etc.

A moment's reflection by a thoughtful person would detect the glaring flaws in a policy that enforces laws unequally according to race, with the intent of making those racial distinctions disappear. But it is not PC to say so.

A moment's reflection by a thoughtful person would discern the fact that the Democratic Party is still engaged in the systematic oppression of former Black slaves, "Indians", and modern Hispanic immigrants from South and Central America, via the racist policies I identified above. But it is not PC to say so - instead we must pretend that all we have to do is continue to perpetuate these absurd racist policies, and racial distinctions will disappear.

Now, sit back and watch while outraged Democrats and silly "Progressives" of all varieties call ME a Racist, for relating obvious truths. In fact neither you nor I am a Racist, but calling us such - and then punishing us for being such - is a modern tactic of the true Racists in our society.

[Sixstrings]

I brought this matter to the attention of the management, suggesting:

"If communication is our #1 priority, new employees such have at least a basic understanding of English, or be enrolled in a English as a second language course as a condition of employment."

This short statement sent to management almost led to my termination. I was subsequently given several verbal and private warnings that racism won't be tolerated. I told each of them that their isn't a racist part of me at all. That I meant just what I said, no reading into this required.

So I'm now in the doghouse at work. Apparently, it is no concern that hiring people who can't communicate, which is directly in contradiction to their established policies, is a hot potato subject that is never to be discussed.

I guess it depends on how bad their english is?

Is your coworkers' english language skills really so bad that you cannot work with them or understand them at all?

But I'd say it's pretty outrageous for your company to say "racism" on just what you posted there, for goodness sake. But you can't fight city hall and neither can one fight the Corporation one works for -- if one plans to keep working there, and to move forward in the company, anyhow.

Office politics is like the tv show "survivor" -- if you are going to speak up and be a squeaky wheel, then you never want to be the ONLY squeaky wheel.

I'd say you could have phrased it differently, it wasn't "racist" but what you posted here would sound aggressive and like a chip on shoulder and maybe insensitive / biased / having an attitude; but really -- just choose your battles. Was this one issue REALLY important to make a case about? You don't want to be poking your head up from the flock of sheeple unless it's extremely important.

It's like any other kind of group dynamics -- you don't want to make a stand unless you're already darn sure that you're going to win it, if you aren't going to win it then best policy is to keep quiet about it, unless it's something that's illegal or whatnot.

Sounds like your management is being PC crazy, but they're your employer there's nothing you can do -- it's their company to run however they want to. What I'd do in that situation is just apologize profusely and then keep my mouth shut on that particular topic. If you keep fighting it Repent then this is just office politics and you'd be seen as not a "team player" and that really is what gets someone let go.

Don't worry about it man, apologize even though you aren't wrong, and just keep quiet on it and move on and forget it. It may not be fair, but it's office politics it's just how it is.

(p.s. just look at your word choice, in corporate mumbo jumbo world your wording does sound a bit aggressive and superior. Basically you're questioning managements' decision to hire these people and if you are not management, how is it your role to say what is and what isn't a condition of employment? Maybe your coworkers have other skill sets that are offsetting perfect english fluency. Or maybe these coworkers are cheaper than fluent english speakers, and that's why the company wants them.

I don't know man, I have a lot of experience with corporate environment, and I have NEVER seen squeaky wheels listened to. They're just seen as not "team players" and as a "problem" for management.

2nd p.s. correction, you said these are subcontractors. Ok, another way to phrase it would just be much more carefully and bring it up as a concern about language skills and show how it's negatively affected the work being done. BUT STILL.. you gotta pick your battles in corporate world.. it needs to be something very darn important, to complain about it because you only have so many things you can complain about before one's employer will just get rid of the complainer. That's just how it is.)

[Rod_Cloutier]

Is your coworkers' english language skills really so bad that you cannot work with them or understand them at all?

Unfortunately yes. But I've (painfully) learned my lesson to shut up about politically incorrect statements, and I'll be saying nothing further about the matter.

We have people from all over the world working there. Bosnia, the Philippines, Somalia, India, Pakistan, Trinidad, and so forth. The ones who have bothered to learn English are all friends, I would never, ever, discriminate against them. The small handful of recent hires, literally don't speak English at all.

My personal job is to be an intermediary between these workers and our sales department. It would be great if I had what it takes to learn Punjab, Hindu, Filipino, and whatever but I don't. (At least not at my pay scale) I will just grin an bear it.

[Sixstrings]

Is your coworkers' english language skills really so bad that you cannot work with them or understand them at all?

Unfortunately yes. But I've (painfully) learned my lesson to shut up about politically incorrect statements, and I'll be saying nothing further about the matter.

We have people from all over the world working there. Bosnia, the Philippines, Somalia, India, Pakistan, Trinidad, and so forth. The ones who have bothered to learn English are all friends, I would never, ever, discriminate against them. The small handful of recent hires, literally don't speak English at all.

My personal job is to be an intermediary between these workers and our sales department. It would be great if I had what it takes to learn Punjab, Hindu, Filipino, and whatever but I don't. (At least not at my pay scale) I will just grin an bear it.

Right. Unfortunately, your company would probably rather hear you say that you're going to learn a bit of THEIR languages so that YOU can communicate with THEM.

And yeah, they probably do not pay you enough for that but that's how it always is right? Your company could be using native english speakers for the other work, but they don't want to pay enough to get native english speakers, apparently. It's upper management's choice.

I'm assuming these subcontractors are really cheap, that's why your company wants them, it's about profit. I assume.

The best thing you could do in this situation is that if it is really bad, then don't talk about english fluency JUST POINT OUT THE ERRORS IN THE WORK and the problems. Pretend they are native english speakers and just screwing up the work, ignore the real reason why you know they can't do the work -- cuz they don't speak any english.

But what kind of work is it, anyway, if it's manufacturing or something then they don't need to speak english.

Maybe do some resetta stone, come back and tell them that and that will make you look good, that you're going to take some classes to help you work with the subcontractors. That's generally what employers want to hear, what you are going to do to get the job done rather than what they have to change to accommodate you.

That may even get you promoted, some multi lingual skills, would make you more valuable to the company if they want to use these foreign workers ya know? After all, they could just replace you with someone that's multilingual. It sucks, but we all have to fight to keep our jobs and often do more for less and it's all for the stock share holders and profit bottom line.

If I sound like an ass by the way I don't mean to be. Corporations suck. I swear, I have been laid off about 4 times in my life and it was never my fault. It was executive board room games and shennigans, mergers, facility shutdowns, financial games. I've worked for several companies and just watched VP level management just run the places right into the ground. Not much you can do to question that, in your case apparently your employer wants cheap labor. They're probably not going to want to hear that decision questioned.

(if you want to get out of the dog house with your management, you could come back to them and tell them you're going to work on how to better communicate with the subcontractors. That your going to take some rosetta stone online courses, or something. It doesn't even matter if that really helps the situation *but that will make ya look good and totally fix the problem that you now have with your management*. It's just about looking like a team player, I know it's a bunch of bs but that's all they want to hear.

Either do that or just do not mention it anymore, good luck man, but maybe that would help just casually mention to whatever manager it is that you're working on how to communicate better with the subcontractors. That will tell them you're not a problem employee, you're going to work to do what they want you to.)

[Rod_Cloutier]

But what kind of work is it, anyway, if it's manufacturing or something then they don't need to speak english.

It's Trucking- White Canadian born workers won't work for $12.00 an hour.

I'm assuming these subcontractors are really cheap, that's why your company wants them, it's about profit

Correct again !

The best thing you could do in this situation is that if it is really bad, then don't talk about english fluency JUST POINT OUT THE ERRORS IN THE WORK and the problems. Pretend they are native english speakers and just screwing up the work, ignore the real reason why you know they can't do the work -- cuz they don't speak any english.

This is really, really good advise that I will be taking !

[Rod_Cloutier]

Also, Sixstrings I wouldn't bother with that personal DNA test. Really, how will it impact the rest of your life? I'm assuming you are middle aged, with Peak oil & everything else coming down the line, how much will it matter?

On the last census I had to add additional lines for the ethnic background of my kids. I am personally a Canadian of Irish, English, and American decent. My wife is a Canadian of German, French, and Aboriginal Indian decent. So our kids our Irish, English, American, Canadian, German, French, and Aboriginal decent. I have an Aunt who married a black man from Trinidad in the 60's, so I even have first cousins who are partially black who are as much a part of my family as anyone else.

In another 4 generations of time, around the year 2100, everyone will be some of everything, and the 'ancient' racial ideas will have passed into distant cultural memory.