[AgentR11]

Six, you're missing my point. I'm not painting a rosy picture for Russia. I'm illustrating a choice Russia allowed itself to be maneuvered into having to make. The luxury of all that oil money, a little bit longer and they'd have had the industrial capacity of Saudi Arabia. Western commercial interests almost pulled off the most magnificent victory of all time as far as I can see, we just botched the closer.

Now, to survive as anything other than a resource pumping slave of the EU, Russia had to, and has to, achieve a number of excruciatingly painful tasks. The ruble must float without bank intervention. Purchasing power parity of consumer goods must be achieved via market means. Regulation of small and startup manufacturers must be eliminated (killing coveted regulator jobs and opportunities for graft). Export products must be delinked from specific export customers; it can not be Europe's gas. Its just gas. Europe needs to be able to say we want to buy Bob's gas or Joe's gas. Moscow needs to be able to say, Joe is offering me a better price for my gas than Bob. (realism will impinge on the ideal somewhat here, but generally speaking...) And one biggy that Putin has not touched at all, tax policy. Their internal revenue generation mechanism is INSANE. It's gotta go, and I have no idea how a government could fix it and still remain in office, because the fix will look like a great bailout of the wealthy oligarchs who stole most of Russia in the first iteration under our tender guidance.

My own opinion, is that Russia has chosen the path of least possible suffering for itself in the long run, at the expense of some additional upfront suffering due to the abruptness of the shift. Any other choice and they'd wind up a frozen version of Spain without the ability to even keep the heaters on at night, after having pumped all their resources to the EU in exchange for chocolate bars. The fortunate thing is that the level of internal suffering, in an absolute sense will remain mild; Russia still manufactures and grows what it needs to get by, more or less pain and starvation free. Had they waited longer, that very well might not have been the case.

Russia had to choose between a painful path and a fatal path. They chose the painful path, and now we'll see whether they can endure the transition.

We best hope they can endure it; because last time they went belly up, a Russian general ran in looking for the command to launch, but met a guy on our side at the top. I don't think Putin can be counted on to have the same benevolent spirit towards the West if that permutation plays out again. That plays out again, the guy at the top's best odds of personal survival lay in giving the order, "launch all".

[AgentR11]

And one little note on "affording" bombers. We are going to get great mileage in the press at Russia's expense over things like the bomber you mentioned. It will sound great, it'll sound like sanctions are doing their job, whatever.

Problem is, this kind of start a project and then leave it process, is typical. They do it all the time. And its horribly inefficient. If there were no sanctions, and great prices on oil; they'd still be starting great projects, and then after the buzz and payola fade, the great project turns into a great abandoned project, and then turns into a great scrapheap and source of spare parts and metal for the next great project start. It makes my head hurt just thinking about it, but it is very much a Russian process, money or no.

I do disagree with the author's assessment of Russia's manufacturing capability; they did come close to neutering themselves for all time, like I mentioned; but I believe Putin may have caught it in time. We won't know for sure for years of course, but my read is that they are entirely capable of producing their weapon systems without assistance from any Western manufacturers.

[Sixstrings]

I saw a thing on CNN about Russia. Apparently about 4% of home mortgages were given in US dollars or other foreign currency. So there are some protests now, and people asking for help from the government.

They interviewed one woman who said her apartment mortgage has ballooned to twice her monthly salary, due to the ruble collapse and she's got to pay her mortgage in US dollar equivalent. People are saying they're going to be out on the street, if the government won't help.

So that's just interesting, it's like another kind of balloon mortgage crisis like we had except over here it was people that didn't have a fixed interest rate and then home values collapsed and so many were underwater. For Russians, it's that their mortgage is in a foreign currency and the ruble collapsed. I wonder if some of them with ruble currency mortgages have a balloon rate too, and now those interest rates are headed up.

Here's an article on it:

Dollar mortgage holders urge Russia to end ‘financial slavery’

MOSCOW: When Olga Savelyeva took out a $226,000 mortgage to buy a small apartment on the outskirts of Moscow in 2008, she could never have imagined that the rouble would lose more than half its value in a few short years.

But Savelyeva’s $2,090 monthly instalments have skyrocketed in rouble terms due to the Russian currency’s dive against the dollar. The resulting jump in monthly payments from 49,000 to 115,000 roubles now devours most of her family’s income.

The 30-year-old mother of a young daughter and her husband have tried to honour their repayment commitments but despite their best efforts, December’s instalment was $400 short. “We’re left with 3,000 roubles ($56) this month,” Savelyeva said. “We won’t be able to make the January payment in full... “We also have other obligations,” she added, referring to her retired mother and cancer-stricken father.
http://thepeninsulaqatar.com/business/international-business/313595/dollar-mortgage-holders-urge-russia-to-end-financial-slavery

[Sixstrings]

Despite Oil Riches, Life in Putin's Russia Hard – And About to Get Harder

The state's ability to deliver services is likely to come under further pressure as recession looms. Many Russians complain that the country often comes up short. Basic amenities can be poorly built or nonexistent, while the standard of living for the average citizen remains far below that in the West.

Kachalina earns 30,000 rubles a month — worth about $540, down from $860 before the ruble's recent collapse. Her extended family of six lives in a nearby town in an apartment with one room and a kitchen, where her ex-husband sleeps on a sofa.

"He has no other place to live," Kachalina said, adding that she struggles to get enough sleep before work. She shares the other room with her son and daughter, her daughter's husband and her three-year-old grandson.

It's a world away from the comforts Russia's elite enjoy. Russian media, mostly controlled by the state or people supportive of the Kremlin, keep the country's vast disparities in wealth out of sight. Some aspects occasionally seep out, though. In 2013, prominent opposition leader and blogger Alexei Navalny published details of a lavish country estate owned by Vladimir Yakunin, president of Russian Railways and a longtime associate of Putin. Navalny's allegations were based on anonymously leaked pictures of the property.

"We read on the Internet what houses Yakunin has. We know that," Kachalina said. "That's disgusting, because nothing has been done for workers."

...

Despite such inequality, Kachalina, the railway worker, sees no sign of Putin and his style of government changing. She did not vote for him in the last election.

"I can't say anything bad about him. The only thing is, he's helping others too much but not us," she said, referring to the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine. "Why not increase wages for those who live here, the Russians, why not give them what he gives Ukraine? I'm against it," she said.

...

Pakhom says she believes that many Russians, especially younger ones used to the high life in Moscow, have no idea what awaits them as the country heads towards economic crisis. She has experienced downturns in Ukraine, where the economy has teetered on the edge of collapse in recent years.

"It's like Groundhog Day for us. We came [to Moscow] and we understand that it's going to happen the same here. We may be better prepared for our troubles than the Russians. It's going to be hard for fat Moscow," Pakhom said.

...

Putin will make their lives better in the end, the couple said. "We need to wait," said Valentina. Pavel said the president should be even more forceful with his people.

"He is taking care of us," Pavel said. "But if he was as tough as Stalin, the discipline would be better."
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/despite-oil-riches-life-in-putin-s-russia-hard-and-about-to-get-harder/514019.html

[dissident]

The Moscow Times. A Finnish owned liberast rag whose mandate is to publish anti-Russian, pro-NATO propaganda 24/7. My relatives cannot corroborate any of the doom and gloom being peddled by this 5th column POS. Things were much worse in 2008-9 and you could see it readily from many indicators.

It is simply not credible that people in Moscow, which has the highest incomes in dollar terms ($1700 per month) and highest per capita GDP would be suffering when people are feeling almost nothing in the hinterland.

BTW, America has no analogue of The Moscow Times. A "mainstream" anti-American rag.

[AgentR11]

Yeah, I'm not seeing this huge distress in Russian language sources, neither high level press nor midget sized asymmetric blog/post sources. And its bothering me a lot. There seems to be a huge investment of media/propaganda effort in ENGLISH aimed at ENGLISH primary language speakers, trying to convince us of the line that sanctions are causing Russia and Russians to feel horrible pain, with collapse imminent. That's freaking weird. It really is irrelevant whether I, a generic, middle class professional in Texas; think Russia is in trouble, or whether I think they're doing awesome; yet someone is pumping serious effort into trying to shape my opinion on the matter. I even have some exposure to the oil price, and I still have little personal reason to care whether Russia sinks or swims. Saudi Arabia's decision to pursue market share at the expense of per barrel profit has a much greater impact, than whether Russia gets deep water / arctic oil flowing in 10 years instead of 20 years.

Its a puzzle I can't figure out, and it sets my paranoia drive in high gear.

[Sixstrings]

It is simply not credible that people in Moscow, which has the highest incomes in dollar terms ($1700 per month) and highest per capita GDP would be suffering when people are feeling almost nothing in the hinterland.

What the article is saying is that *it's coming*. That people have no idea, but it's coming.

The article was a puff piece pretty much, but look at what I posted above it. About 4% of Russian mortgages being in US dollars! So now the ruble collapses and suddenly mortgage payments ballooned to double!

People can't pay it, not even in Moscow. The mortgages are more than their monthly salary. So what's gonna happen? Will the government ignore it? Will these people all be out on the street?

I guess it will be like the US housing crash, Russians that are under water with dollar loans will have to walk away from their houses and rent something cheaper. So then that leads to a cascade effect, housing market crash, plus look at this thread title and the 17% interest rate -- inflation is going to be way up in '15, interest up, ruble collapsing more, dollar mortgages spiraling to double and triple, basic imported goods costing a fortune in the market, how is this not a very bad spiral going on?

BTW, America has no analogue of The Moscow Times. A "mainstream" anti-American rag.

Actually, "RT" type alternative media and those views really have had a large impact.

Moscow Times is supposed to have an expat readership, yet a lot of english-speaking Russians like it. The newspaper is only allowed to exist because it is english language, and from what I understand they'd be shut down if they were printing this in Russian.

There's more tolerance for things in English, much tighter control on what media the masses can see / hear, in Russian.

Mowcow Times doesn't usually get linked on Drudgereport, but I just noticed they're on there today with a Russian machine gun robots story:

Russian Battle Robots Near Testing for Military Use


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-battle-robots-near-testing-for-military-use/514038.html

I like that approach, make a darn tank a robot! US is working on super fancy things like robots with cheetah legs that can run fast, tiny surveillance robots with hummingbird wings, and bipedal humanoid battle robots.

So what's Russia do? Just put some darn tank treads on the robot, tried and tested all terrain locomotion. Makes sense. But I sure hate to see this era dawning, looks like Russia may be the first to ever deploy *land* drones.

[Tanada]

It is simply not credible that people in Moscow, which has the highest incomes in dollar terms ($1700 per month) and highest per capita GDP would be suffering when people are feeling almost nothing in the hinterland.

What the article is saying is that *it's coming*. That people have no idea, but it's coming.

The article was a puff piece pretty much, but look at what I posted above it. About 4% of Russian mortgages being in US dollars! So now the ruble collapses and suddenly mortgage payments ballooned to double!



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-battle-robots-near-testing-for-military-use/514038.html

I like that approach, make a darn tank a robot! US is working on super fancy things like robots with cheetah legs that can run fast, tiny surveillance robots with hummingbird wings, and bipedal humanoid battle robots.

So what's Russia do? Just put some darn tank treads on the robot, tried and tested all terrain locomotion. Makes sense. But I sure hate to see this era dawning, looks like Russia may be the first to ever deploy *land* drones.

The Future is NOW

[Sixstrings]

Yeah, I'm not seeing this huge distress in Russian language sources, neither high level press nor midget sized asymmetric blog/post sources.

...

Its a puzzle I can't figure out, and it sets my paranoia drive in high gear.

Do you remember the early days of the housing and financial crisis, in the US?

There were rumblings and warnings about it, but they were ignored. Nobody was "feeling the distress," at first. Heck, *billionaires* who should know better made some bad bets back then. And then, some very very smart people made good bets and saw it coming and now they are billionaires.

I remember, the financial crisis here took a while to ramp up. I was in real estate at the time. The real estate agents I worked with were the first canaries in the coal mine, they'd come in every day bitching and bitching and bitching about how horrible everything was, yet it wasn't on the "news."

Anyhow, I don't want to see Russians in Russia having problems or coffee and tea costing a fortune at the market and mortgages doubling. So if they get by okay, then fine.

And OTOH to play devil's advocate, I will say you see some of these stories like "hungry people in st. petersburg" -- and there's like a soup kitchen van and five homeless guys, so what kind of news story is that you know? Jesus, we've got lots more hungry here in the US and generally we don't even have vans running around feeding them!

And I was watching Anthony Bourdain with an Iranian family, and they were talking about sanctions. The Iranian family was saying that because of the sanctions, young people can't get good jobs anymore and start their lives anymore.

So I was sitting there thinking, well heck that's the same situation in the US.

Some of these problems in other places, are problems here too.

(I mean seriously, it is kind of funny, how is five hungry people in St. Petersburg news when I'm getting panhandled all the time right where I live and there's no van feeding them, at least they've got that soup kitchen van in st. petersburg. If Americans don't give a sh*t about hungry Americans, how is five hungry people in St. Petersburg news.

But.. a report about 4% of Russian mortgages being in US dollars and other currencies, and then ruble collapse, and then mortgage payments doubling beyond what people can pay -- that's real journalism.)

[AgentR11]

Do you remember the early days of the housing and financial crisis, in the US?

I remember going absolutely ape-***** ballistic when I found they were offering annual balloon payment mortgages to houseflippers with no income structure to support that payment plan. LONG before 2009.

Nobody was "feeling the distress," at first.

There were tons of bears. I was one. They got chanted over with the cheer leading, just like the wishcasting about Russia that is going on now. If anything, the wishcasters looking for the end of Russia are the ones imitating the out of control hysteria that was typical of the boom bulls before 2009.

Anyhow, I don't want to see Russians in Russia having problems or coffee and tea costing a fortune at the market and mortgages doubling. So if they get by okay, then fine.

Coffee and Tea in Russia, RIGHT NOW, costs exactly what it should. Its market priced, I buy coffee here in Texas, Bob buys coffee in St. Petersburg, costs about the same, with a little addon for the extra shipping cost involved. I'm curious, do you think someone that lives at the back corner of the Baltic sea, frozen for months in ice, within a stone's throw of the arctic, should pay the same shipping for coffee as someone who lives close by to coffee growers on the Gulf Coast???

As to mortgages; do you think it was fair that that Russian taking out that dollar mortgage was forcing the country as a whole to pay for 40% of their house? That is what was true before November. That is no longer true. That they got busted with their fingers in the cookie jar is individually unfortunate; but they took a risk financing their home in a foreign currency in order to exploit a large manipulation; and risks sometimes end with negative results. The market has no obligation to compensate people for risks they took that were stupid.

And I was watching Anthony Bourdain with an Iranian family, and they were talking about sanctions. The Iranian family was saying that because of the sanctions, young people can't get good jobs anymore and start their lives anymore.

Iran is very different. That you would even think to compare Iran and Russia makes most of your arguments seem hollow and foolish. Iran is right at the edge of the population they can sustain; they are water and food calorie stressed. None of that is true of Russia. Russia has vast agricultural capacity that they don't even bother to produce from; they produce multiple times over the food calories that are required for their own population.. and water??? Surely you kid.

But.. a report about 4% of Russian mortgages being in US dollars and other currencies, and then ruble collapse, and then mortgage payments doubling beyond what people can pay -- that's real journalism.)

It is real journalism, sorta; its journalism that doesn't explore WHY they thought it was a great idea to use dollars to finance their house when their income was in rubles. The answer is simple, and greedy as heck. By using dollars they were able to get the Russian Central bank to pay for about 40% of the cost of their house. They made a huge bet, with other people's money, and lost. Gamblers do not deserve sympathy, ever.

[Strummer]

Regarding the dollar mortgages, those people are no victims. They tried to gamble the system to get an unfair advantage and they lost.

Same thing happened last year in Hungary with the Swiss franc, here's an analysis of that (nearly identical) situation:

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2013/1 ... borrowers/

[radon1]

By using dollars they were able to get the Russian Central bank to pay for about 40% of the cost of their house. They made a huge bet, with other people's money, and lost. Gamblers do not deserve sympathy, ever.

Regarding the dollar mortgages, those people are no victims. They tried to gamble the system to get an unfair advantage and they lost.

Well, that's a bit more complex than that. They'd certainly take rouble mortgages if the interest rates were reasonable. But the rouble rates have always been rapacious. You'd finish up paying for your house multiples of the purchase price.

Even the dollar rates were tough. Something like ~10% for a good solid borrower. The central bank has actually made every incentive for the people and companies to borrow in foreign low-interest currencies. And play a forex game with their balance sheet instead of focusing on running their principal business.

[Sixstrings]

Well, that's a bit more complex than that. They'd certainly take rouble mortgages if the interest rates were reasonable. But the rouble rates have always been rapacious. You'd finish up paying for your house multiples of the purchase price.

Even the dollar rates were tough. Something like ~10% for a good solid borrower. The central bank has actually made every incentive for the people and companies to borrow in foreign low-interest currencies. And play a forex game with their balance sheet instead of focusing on running their principal business.

I agree with radon.

And I'd just say that no, it is not some average family's fault that they got a dollar-based mortgage to buy their home. It is GOVERNMENT'S job to be looking out for consumers -- most consumers have some kind of job and life that has nothing to do with hedge fund high finance expertise, they need someone looking out for them.

It's why all business has regulation, from patent medicines to "bait and switch" retail laws. Because there a thousand ways for business to separate average folks from their money, to lie to them and scam them, and you have to have a government looking out for people.

Clearly the Kremlin was not looking out for these Russian families.

And if they knew they were going to go and start a darn confrontation with the entire West and tank the ruble, then it was HIGHLY irresponsible for them to be pushing dollar based mortgages onto people!

It sounds like these are average families here, they aren't oligarchs, it's not their fault Putin started invading left and right and now their darn mortgage has doubled to more than what their whole salary is.

This isn't even like in the US, with people tapping too much equity -- but even that wasn't average folks' fault, that whole 2nd mortgage thing was all PUSHED by the Fed and US government because otherwise this economy had nothing going for it.

Average folks left homeless on the street and holding the bag, and it's government's fault, same in Russia as the US.

(I'm starting to think this whole thing with Russia is going to devolve into Russian and American 1% eating caviar at their yacht clubs and partying together, and the other 99% of all of us having flame wars over who is poorer)

[Sixstrings]

The kremlin has a bailout for corporations, where's the bailout for the average folks who may lose their home because they don't happen to be geopolitical experts / kremlinologists and couldn't predict the ruble crash, and dollar doubling, years in advance?

Russia throws lifeline to companies starved for cash by sanctions

Russia: Ruble plummets, mortgages skyrocket

The Russian government is pumping money into big companies that are being starved for cash by Western sanctions.
In the past week alone, it invested 100 billion rubles ($1.7 billion) in Russian bank VTB and nearly 40 billion rubles ($680 million) in Gazprombank.

The two banks are among Russia's biggest financial institutions and were barred last year from raising funds from U.S. and European markets.

The government has also reportedly given 150 billion rubles ($2.6 billion) to support a major natural gas project owned by Novatek, a massive Russian energy firm that has also been hit with sanctions.

Russia's economy is shrinking, its currency has plunged by over 40% in the last year, and inflation is running rampant as the country struggles with Western sanctions and a drop in oil prices.

Many investors and depositors are pulling money out of their Russian accounts -- weakening capital levels at the banks. This, in turn, means Russian financial institutions have less to lend to local companies, a trend that threatens to further squeeze the fragile economy.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/02/news/economy/russia-rescues-companies/

[AgentR11]

Six, there will be no bailouts for people that financed their homes in a foreign currency. None. Period. Stop dreaming.

And you keep with this asserting drumbeat, inflation, weakening, blah, blah. Its irrelevant.

There will be no Maidan in Moscow.
Russia will not leave Crimea.
Sanctions will not be eased.
Russia will not collapse.
Russians will not starve.
Putin will win reelection if he runs.
NATO will not invade Russia.
Russia will not invade NATO.

Its a a big zilch for US, EU, Ukraine, and Russia.

And it is a *massive* win for China.

[Sixstrings]

Six, there will be no bailouts for people that financed their homes in a foreign currency. None. Period. Stop dreaming.

Well I'm not Russian, doesn't matter to me, I'm just commenting that it isn't right.

Maybe if their government didn't spend money on Empire and ICBMs on frickin' trains that they can't really afford, they could have done something to give regular families a decent interest rate to buy a house with -- just a lot of ordinary people gonna get screwed over here, with this ruble collapse, and nobody cares about them now do they?

I'm just saying, these are really horrible mortgages, holy cow.

At least with balloon mortgages there's some kind of max gradation and interest rate cap.

What we're talking about here are families at the mercy of forex with no cap or protection at all, with their home, with an aged pensioner parent sleeping on the couch -- so they're just all out on the street? All for Empire in Crimea and the Putin regime? wtf, ya know? Maybe Russians will get tired of this stuff after a while.

Here's an idea: I don't know what the ramifications in the credit market would be, but the Russian government could do a "foreclosure moratorium" and not actually allow foreclosures on these people. A USA position would be to go ahead and let them hurt and then maybe there will be a Russian government collapse from these sanctions, that's the whole point right?

But I don't see that happening, if sanctions have never changed Iran or Cuba or North Korea or Iraq then how is Russia somehow gonna be the first sanctions that work? Militarily though, crippling the Russian economy does remove the threat if nothing else.

But anyhow.. if I were giving advice to the Russian gov, I'd say a foreclosure moratorium with mortgage payments at the old ruble rate with the currency value difference deferred and added onto the mortgage, for in later years after all this has settled down, that would be reasonable and fair to all.

There are many other things they could do for these people, we'll see what their government does.

[AgentR11]

"All for Empire in Crimea and the Putin regime? wtf, ya know? Maybe Russians will get tired of this stuff after a while."

So, if I speculate on Mexican Peso, using my house as collateral, and at first make 50 grand or so, and then I push it too far and the FED QE's a little too hard, and I go down a net 10 grand; its all of a sudden the US Government's fault and they should be responsible for MY speculative risk?

No. Its entirely right that these folks playing amatuer currency speculator are getting hosed. Entirely just and reasonable. They took a bet, a *big* bet. And it didn't pay out. That's not Putin's problem. That's not the Russian government's problem. In fact, they are in exactly the opposite mood right now, looking to put some hurt on speculators that bet too big.

They will not get a bailout. Russians with ruble mortgages shouldn't be expected to pick up the slack for speculators. Speculators should get annihilated when they bet wrong, and we should have absolutely NO SYMPATHY for them.

None.

[radon1]

They will not get a bailout.

No bailout, but the banks have apparently done a bit of restructuring for them, fixing the liability at some exchange rate and converting the dollar mortgages into rouble ones, with a quiet financial backing of the government. Not a sweet deal, the borrowers' reliability record destroyed anyway, but something. Those forex mortgagers held a couple of protesting rallies, and the government gave in. They react really fast to any sign of mass public protests, fearing for a local maidan obviously. On another occasion a guy sat in his car for nine hours protesting about forced evacuation of his car, the thing went highly publicized in the media, and the state Duma immediately adopted a law limiting forced evacuations, obviously mindful of auto-maidan in Kiev.

[dissident]

They will not get a bailout.

No bailout, but the banks have apparently done a bit of restructuring for them, fixing the liability at some exchange rate and converting the dollar mortgages into rouble ones, with a quiet financial backing of the government. Not a sweet deal, the borrowers' reliability record destroyed anyway, but something. Those forex mortgagers held a couple of protesting rallies, and the government gave in. They react really fast to any sign of mass public protests, fearing for a local maidan obviously. On another occasion a guy sat in his car for nine hours protesting about forced evacuation of his car, the thing went highly publicized in the media, and the state Duma immediately adopted a law limiting forced evacuations, obviously mindful of auto-maidan in Kiev.

No one aside from the liberast lunatic fringe actually thinks that there will be any Maidan in Russia. You are part of that minority. The thought that the Duma or the administration might actually be doing their jobs never crossed your mind.

No amount of adding zeros to the turnout numbers for Navalny cult members will transform them into some sort of voice of the mainstream. That is why you liberasts hate the "bydlo" so much. They don't bend to your tiny minority will. You all should bugger off onto some island and establish your utopia there. Unlce Sam will be feeding you and wiping your asses, I am sure.

[radon1]

No amount of adding zeros to the turnout numbers for Navalny cult members will transform them into some sort of voice of the mainstream.

I dislike Navalny no less than I dislike Duma, though he did do a good job publicizing facts of corruption, whatever personal interest he pursued in doing so. The problem is that the choice that seems to be imposed from both corners, left and right, east and west, is between terribly bad and awfully bad.

You are either a putinoid troll, or outright fool, or simply fail to make your brains work. Think that the last one is most probable. With that in mind, whatever your welfare-takers report to you from Russia, you have to think a bit and understand that the current welfare state is unsustainable. UNSUSTAINABLE. If you prefer to stay in denial, than why don't you carry your welfare-takers yourself, rather than constantly cheering their getting on somebody's neck.