anonymous1 wrote:And the crazy idea about independent Ukraine posing a great risk for Russia's existence (compared to an attack on Russia),
Just an objective question. So what if the USA really does "arm Ukraine to the teeth."
How do you feel about Crimea? If "armed to the teeth," is Ukraine going to accept Russian annexation in Crimea or may it actually start messing around down there and pushing on it, if there's some destabilization in Russia and opportunity arises?
Of course Ukraine would never threaten Russia proper, but I wonder about Crimea, what will Ukraine do in the future AFTER it has a good military courtesy of the USA -- and, Ukraine's own military buildup and domestic manufacturing and military imports they're doing from other places.
Probably the safest thing for everyone, Russia included, would be to get Ukraine fully into NATO. That's better than an independent Ukraine that is just "armed to the teeth" and may do something risky like try to work on retaking Crimea (in the future).
As an American, my only concern about arming Ukraine "to the teeth" is that I don't actually want to see them start WWIII, or a scenario like too harsh an offensive in the east -- but now with top notch US military hardware -- and maybe atrocious civilian casualties, and we'd have responsibility for that if we're the ones that armed Ukraine.
(I actually think it will be okay, Kiev is working closely with EU and US, I think it's safe to arm them. If we ever do send serious business heavy arms, then I think we need to send advisors and trainers too, Americans may not like sending "advisors" in there because that sounds like Vietnam, but I think we can't just send a bunch of weapons alone -- we have a responsibility here if we send those weapons -- so we need to have some control over how they are used. Ukraine in nato is the best route, really, since no nato nation can do anything crazy without approval of the other nato states because none of us want WWIII)
Incidentally: publicly anyway, all US officials, and Ukraine's new American finance minister for that matter, are 100% about Crimea is illegally occupied and annexed. The practical problem about it though is that it's just too late, and you can't ever take it back now without Russia considering that a direct attack on them. The east is different, those are separatist states. If Russia ever *annexes* something though, then the world must act FAST to stop it, if you let it go on then they just have it, possession being 9/10 of the law.
But I just want to clarify, officially, nobody in US gov or EU has ever said Ukraine has to give up on Crimea. The closest talk about this was a German opposition leader suggesting putting Crimea recognition on the table, but that never went anywhere.
My opinion: nobody can tell Ukraine they have to give up on Crimea, but it's just that we honestly do not want WWIII and the end of the whole world, all over the Crimea.
so Russia can only allow some degree of cultural autonomy for Ukraine, while its government should be a Russian puppet.
They definitely want Ukraine to be their puppet. That's always been the case. Condoleeza Rice wrote about how she met with Putin one time in his office and he said "I want to introduce you to someone" and out comes Yanokovich from a side door. Shakes her hand. And goes back out the door. Rice said the message of the whole thing is that Russia wanted the US to know that Yanukovich is Putin's man.
For its part, USA has always been there working in Ukraine and offering relations but also cosnistent that Ukraine keep working with Russia too, US just wanted to be in there too. So then finally that Russia-Ukraine relationship completely imploded, so Uncle Sam wound up with it all. Other than the parts Russia has forcefully annexed, and taken.
US allies sometimes complain that Washington does not do enough for them, but on the aggregate, they generally don't wind up hating us anyhow and throwing us out. What's gone on with Hungary is unusual, it's the only western place tacking towards Moscow. But even Hungarians don't hate us, or anything.
But in Ukraine -- Russia has really made a *long term*, generational, bad blood blood feud, adversary. It's all Russia's fault. They are so blind to it. I was reading an article the other day, about how Russians just don't understand this, there are Russians that have FAMILY in Ukraine -- and these Russians actually think their own blood family has just been brainwashed.
Russians really do not understand, why Ukrainians are so angry.
About foreigner ministers in the Ukrainian Cabinet: do you know that in the Yanukovych presidency times the heads of Ukrainian Defence Ministry and Security Service were actually freshly naturalized Russian Federation citizens?
If you're Ukrainian, how do you feel about it, does it bother you about the foreigners in the cabinet?
The way it looks to me, it's more like Ukraine internationalizing and reaching out and really all Ukraine has done for the last year is make a lot of allies. So, they go ahead and appoint a Georgian, Estonian, Lithuanian, and American. The American has the finance minister post, the others are like health minister and such and not so substantial.
The way I see it, the people in the maidan wanted the corruption out and they wanted some EU deals and a better economy.
Having some Americans in the government and close ties with EU and the US will help with that. The #1 goal is to improve the economy, and change everything, get the corruption out of there, just make it a "normal kind of place" like how Poland is, etc. I think that's what the Ukrainian people wanted out of all this, yep they've had Russians in the cabinet before, so now they have some Westerners and their east europe friends -- this help from the West will be good, long term, and down the road in the future you won't have an American in the cabinet anymore, etc.
Ukraine will just have a much better economy and nicer things and a future and growth and won't be poorest in Europe anymore, and won't be a dictatorship and will have freedom, how can anyone be against this?A Ukrainian can look at Poland, or Estonia, and then look at Belarus, and decide which way they want to go. The EU way, or the Putin way.
And yes, the main Ukrainian problem now is corruption (even up to the state treason level), bribery, cleptocracy etc., and here comes all the nepotism, oligarchy lobbyism, unprofessionalism etc.
Hopefully that all changes. Every little bit that stuff improves, and gets better, means the Ukrainian economy will be better too.
What part of you Ukraine are you from? Any insights you have would be useful to these discussions, welcome to the forum.