Re: How likely is it that there is an 'afterlife'?

by **jesus_of_suburbia** » Tue 10 Mar 2015, 13:17:45

The kingdom of heaven and the life hereafter is nothing like what is here, and the metaphors used to describe it simply serve to assure the listener that material drives and needs will be of no concern. One asks if I marry the widow, whose wife is she in the afterlife.. its a foolish question, marriage ends at death, all physical things end at death, all emotions and possessive ties end at death; what is reborn is an entirely different existence. An existence that is truly suitable to sing to the glory of God.

I'm an atheist and don't believe in the afterlife, but I've always found some of the arguments against the afterlife to be a little silly.

You're right. Why would something like that matter when you are on a whole different plane of existence? How do you have those biological desires if you cease to be biological?

by **Rod_Cloutier** » Tue 10 Mar 2015, 23:19:15

This guy was a skeptic like you, before and after, worth the listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... HBA28#t=10

(podcast)

by **aldente** » Fri 13 Mar 2015, 14:20:21

AgentR11 wrote:t is enough.

Did you truly arrive at a point where your quote holds true "for yourself" - I mean, not the forum here, which is meaningless in and of itself - pull the plug and see how much of our "thoughts" remain...

by **AgentR11** » Fri 13 Mar 2015, 15:06:59

aldente wrote:
AgentR11 wrote:t is enough.

Did you truly arrive at a point where your quote holds true "for yourself" - I mean, not the forum here, which is meaningless in and of itself - pull the plug and see how much of our "thoughts" remain...

I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding the context.. what is "t is enough".

This is as close to a quote from me that I can find.

I do hope in that last, final moment, I can see a body fully spent, and mind that has been pushed to its limit, not something wrecked by the casual passage of time; at that point, I will accept 'good enough' and be content to stop.

I can't see how to get from my quote, to anything about "how much of our "thoughts" remain.

If you refer to my other post in this thread about the biological nature of what we perceive as consciousness; there's no way to prove it; its just a philosophical hypothesis, as I noted. The only souls that know the answer, have left unmoving, dead corpses behind, and are no longer able to provide objective data on the question.

You are free to disagree or have no opinion, as you might wish. You could also contribute something more useful than funny bird pictures to elaborate on why you think my hypothesis might be in error.

by **onlooker** » Mon 16 Mar 2015, 17:39:27

Very interesting topic and responses. Well my belief is that their is an afterlife in so much as we do have a soul/spirit which is eternal. I believe this because I believe in an eternal God. I find the universe too mysterious and unfathomable to have a basis in any reasoned explanation. Also, the existence of intelligence/consciousness reinforces my belief in God, in so much as I think that was the ultimate purpose of God in creating this universe so that beings like us can contemplate him. As to what awaits us after this life that to me is more of a mystery then that something does.

by **Rod_Cloutier** » Mon 16 Mar 2015, 18:27:51

When you think about it. This side of the fence HAS TO BE BETTER, than the other side 'heaven' of the afterlife. Otherwise there would be no one here and everything crammed like sardines in a can on the other side of the fence.

Souls in heaven envying the living. Living souls envying the dead. Who's right?

by **Newfie** » Mon 16 Mar 2015, 19:28:23

I think I figured this out in about third grade or so.

No chance in hell, dead is dead.

by **careinke** » Tue 17 Mar 2015, 21:43:24

I had this weird dream last night. Somehow, I had come to the realization that each of us never die, just the people around us. Sort of like each of us had our own alternate universe. We die in other peoples universes, but not in our own. Plus we never know about the other us's.

My proof was; I was still alive, while others around me continue to die as time goes on. This made me want to fix the environment for my great, great, great, grandchildren, who I would get to see, since I was immortal in my own universe.

I maintain my dreamed religion, makes as much sense as any other metaphysics belief. Perhaps I should call it a vision, and start my own religion. LOL

by **Newfie** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 07:33:20

Sounds a bit like "The Sixth Sense".

BTW, that movie was set on our street, one block over. My Wife sees patients in our home.

by **Pops** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 09:27:04

Repent wrote:Souls in heaven envying the living. Living souls envying the dead. Who's right?

Depends on your life.
The jews in the old testament were persecuted, the christians fed to the lions, American slaves beaten daily, modern whoever suffer whatever.
If life is hell you want to believe there is a heaven; the reward for your suffering. The place where there is no overseer and the rich man has no chance to enter, it is full of dogs and gold and 72 virgins for every good man, basically all the things you <didn't covet> in life
and I'm pretty sure is completely segregated so you never have to gaze upon anyone who is not exactly like you.

In other words it the carrot that gets you to the end of the row, so you can start in on the next — and drop your money in the collection plate on Sunday.

by **Timo** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 09:54:44

The concept of a soul implies eternal life. Eternal life implies the existence of a soul even before we are physically born. Does everyone believe we had a soul before we were born? If we did have a soul, did were therefore choose to be born in human form, as opposed to any other form, anywhere else in the universe? If we did make that decision to be born in human form prior to our fertilization in our mother's womb, WTF were we thinking???

Our souls apparently have very short memories. And that's assuming our souls have memories, at all. Assuming our soul will continue to exist after we die, will we remember life in our human forms? Will we regret our decisions to be born as a human in the first place? Will we be greatful we're dead?

WOW! That peyote is some serious shit!

by **Pops** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 10:05:23

My question is, what were 7 billion souls doing when there were only a few million occupied in corporeal form here on earth?

by **Timo** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 10:15:20

Pops wrote:My question is, what were 7 billion souls doing when there were only a few million occupied in corporeal form here on earth?

We were all cats.

by **Rod_Cloutier** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 14:18:03

My question is, what were 7 billion souls doing when there were only a few million occupied in corporeal form here on earth?

The Universe is really, really, really, big. Do you think there is no where else to go?

by **Pops** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 14:30:33

Repent wrote:
My question is, what were 7 billion souls doing when there were only a few million occupied in corporeal form here on earth?

The Universe is really, really, really, big. Do you think there is no where else to go?

Do you?

by **AgentR11** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 14:45:55

Timo wrote:Our souls apparently have very short memories. And that's assuming our souls have memories, at all. Assuming our soul will continue to exist after we die, will we remember life in our human forms? Will we regret our decisions to be born as a human in the first place? Will we be greatful we're dead?

"memory" is a biological artifact of consciousness; it ends at death and did not exist before birth. Its not nearly as important as people seem to think it is.

Hows that for Peyote fuel.

by **Pops** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 14:54:27

AgentR11 wrote:"memory" is a biological artifact of consciousness;

So if I think therefore I am, then for all intents, when I don't think I ain't.

So no afterlife after life.

by **AgentR11** » Wed 18 Mar 2015, 15:44:25

Pops wrote:
AgentR11 wrote:"memory" is a biological artifact of consciousness;

So if I think therefore I am, then for all intents, when I don't think I ain't.
So no afterlife after life.

I've never been a fan of this "I think therefore I am" statement. Its cute, concise, and meaningless. I think, thinking is overrated; again, going back to my theological hypothesis; that this consciousness, this thing we "think" with or as, is merely a biological artifact that keeps a mammal with a brain as large and in control as our is, operating with sufficient efficiency to pass our genes down to the next generation.

My slogan: I think, therefore, my brain will usually fail to kill me. But when we do die; thinking is over. Thinking, memory, emotion... completely biological, no magic or spiritual power involved. Just glucose, metallic ions, and some odd proteins getting zapped along a bioelectric net.

The soul is *NOT* the consciousness. The soul is *NOT* our thoughts and emotions. The soul is an entirely different existence. Not a different biological thing with different thoughts, emotions, and memories; but truly a different existence, unlike that which has thoughts and emotions and memories, and yes, is also our self.

Now, if you define yourself as your consciousness, then yep, that which you call "you" comes to a full stop, end, when you die. That doesn't imply that your soul won't do whatever it is that souls do at the point the biological body dies, regardless of whether you believe in it or not; but that which you thought of as "you" won't have an opinion on the matter, as it will no longer exist.