[ralfy]

The reference to mice reminds me of

http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.php

As for doom, I think most people worldwide dream of a bright future:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-22956470

which also includes assurances that their children will not suffer or die prematurely.

Countering that is the reality of industrial civilization (on which that bright and safe future is based) requiring more material resources and energy in a limited biosphere:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-collapse

Add to that the sense that households, governments, military forces, and businesses will look out for themselves first, and it is likely that there will be little cooperation or coordination on a global scale.

Given these points, it is not hard to explain why most by default are not doomers, and why they should be. Because on one hand one must appreciate life as much as possible, and on the other one must try as hard as possible to protect one's children and loved ones.

[Lore]

People are generally overly optimistic about their future. While their pasts are filled with a lot more pot holes then they expected. Part of our survival instinct which drives us forward through adversity. Humans go to war always believing that it's the next guy that's going to get it.

[midnight-gamer]

There were a quite a few people on here who posted regularly about various sorts of doom. Sure, doom could have happened, but with hindsight bias we know that those posters were wrong about many things.

Most people around here take a more academic view of the future prognostications, and it's probably better to keep it that way. I think many people aren't emotionally equipped to study the effects of a possible environmental population bottleneck.

If reading this stuff was having any negative effects, then I'm very pleased at the OP's change in outlook. Take care.

[copious.abundance]

Either way, I stopped being a doomer.

It's official: Hell has frozen over.

Unless, of course, he/she/it is just trying to pull a fast one on us.

Or schizophrenia?

I think careinke might have been onto something here.

[onlooker]

I interpret this doomer argument as involving the level of being convinced or not of the sustainability of the human species. It hits home because one can imagine one's own premature demise or one's offspring. In the end it involves a subjective conclusion as certainty of the human future is at best vague. Having said that it is quite apparent that the trajectory we are on is unsustainable. This is not a doomer point of view, it is the logical conclusion one reaches upon analyzing all the data available. See Limits to Growth.

[DesuMaiden]

I used to believe that industrial civilization was going to end because of variety of factors such as peak oil, climate change, overpopulation and resource depletion. But I experienced a total shift in belief recently.

I believe there might be alternatives to oil (like nuclear fusion and algae biofuels) that are either:

a) Being suppressed by Big Oil Companies because these companies want to keep us addicted to oil for as long as possible

b) these alternatives to oil aren't viable yet because the price of oil is still too low. Once the price of oil goes up to an excessive level, maybe people might start using alternatives to oil

I used to be overall concerned about peak oil leading to the end of industrial civilization. But these days, I don't think peak oil will lead to the end of industrial civilization.

But I still think that a variety of factors such as population growth and resource depletion will gradually cause our economic growth to slow down. Contrary to popular belief, technology does not grow indefinitely. If the resources on this Earth are too limited, then technological growth will be limited since technology is dependent on natural resources. And not the other way around.

I believe it is best for human beings to stop being obsessed about gaining more advanced technology. Our technology is already advanced enough. Technology, contrary to popular belief, will not solve all of our problems. In fact, technology might cause more problems than it solves.

For example, I've read that immortality for human beings might be achievable within the next couple of decades. If that is true, and humans can live forever without ever dying, then the human population will quickly explode to a point where the Earth quickly becomes overpopulated. And we will have to end up killing each other in order to prevent the population from growing.

As the Jurassic Park movies demonstrate, technology can have its negative side effects.

Anyways back on the topic of why I'm no longer a doomer. I don't believe that our civilization will necessarily end, but our civilization will face many challenges due to resource depletion. We need to start practicing the following ASAP:

1) Use renewable resources (like water, trees and etc) at a rate that's no higher than their natural rates of replenishment.

2) Recycle nonrenewable resources (like iron, rare earth elements and etc), so that we never run out of nonrenewable resources.

I think Michael Ruppert is an overly paranoid lunatic. His beliefs are too simplistic and inaccurate. I adhere more to Richard Heinberg's beliefs that peak oil and other economic issues will cause our society to simplify. Perhaps a more simplified society will have more equality? I hope we can become a better world even if we might become less technologically advanced in the future.

That's all I have to say. I hope I make sense.

[SeaGypsy]

Oh no, he's back.

[diemos]

This civilization will end.

A different civilization will take its place.

There will still be humans living on this planet a thousand years from now. What their lives will be like and what their history books will say about us, who can say?

[Ibon]

Oh no, he's back.

The android is maturing, he was wiped his data bank of Michael Ruppert and Richard Heinberg is now in.

[GHung]

He was never a doomer; just playing one on TV.

[Subjectivist]

Civilization has always gone through cycles. Knowing that does not mean I am a doomer, it means I am a realist when I say our civilization will cycle down just like every other one has.

[Grifter]

6 doesn't think there is such a thing as PO, not sure how he got here

What I see a lot here is a desperate attempt for people to cling to a narrative that makes them feel better. That's why people can turn on a dime to "we're screwed" to "we're saved". It's not that they really have worked things out intellectually, but it's that need to clutch at a simple narrative and to delude oneself into thinking that it's infallible--only to wind up abandoning it for some new narrative later, like putting on a new pair of clothes.

Couldn't see it more differently, people here seem entrenched to me, after just 4 hours of reading. There really isn't much mind changing going on at all.

No idea why, it's a very simple concept. We need loads of energy, it's going away, it isn't (and won't) be very nice.

[Lore]

6 doesn't think there is such a thing as PO, not sure how he got here

What I see a lot here is a desperate attempt for people to cling to a narrative that makes them feel better. That's why people can turn on a dime to "we're screwed" to "we're saved". It's not that they really have worked things out intellectually, but it's that need to clutch at a simple narrative and to delude oneself into thinking that it's infallible--only to wind up abandoning it for some new narrative later, like putting on a new pair of clothes.

Couldn't see it more differently, people here seem entrenched to me, after just 4 hours of reading. There really isn't much mind changing going on at all.

No idea why, it's a very simple concept. We need loads of energy, it's going away, it isn't (and won't) be very nice.

That's because 90% of those left here have been members for years. Much has been discussed during that time. Even among the general population which is over 90% aware of the main issues and so have formulated a solid opinion.

Also, members of PO are typically older and more entrenched in their beliefs. As of now it's just a wait till the next shoe drops and what we we have here is a bunch of aging watchmen.

[Ibon]

Also, members of PO are typically older and more entrenched in their beliefs. As of now it's just a wait till the next shoe drops and what we we have here is a bunch of aging watchmen.

Kind of like an old peoples home.

[ralfy]

If the "civilization" referred to is industrial civilization based on global capitalism, then there's no other narrative to describe that and only one ending.

[Revi]

People are generally overly optimistic about their future. While their pasts are filled with a lot more pot holes then they expected. Part of our survival instinct which drives us forward through adversity. Humans go to war always believing that it's the next guy that's going to get it.

I think it's what keeps us going. Hope springs eternal!

[Ibon]

People are generally overly optimistic about their future. While their pasts are filled with a lot more pot holes then they expected. Part of our survival instinct which drives us forward through adversity. Humans go to war always believing that it's the next guy that's going to get it.

I think it's what keeps us going. Hope springs eternal!

Only one in ten thousand baby sea turtles makes it to an adult to carry forth his or her genes.

There are many organisms that have been selected with such low odds of individual survival. I think this is what modern humans in overshoot resemble as we approach the bottleneck. Like recently hatched sea turtles.

Each and every one of those little sea turtles is an energetic little bundle of hope against the piercing bills of gulls and jaws of predatory fish. And yet they persevere.

Shouldn't this be the same optimistic way we should all approach the consequences coming our way that we know will squeeze us through a bottleneck?

With the odds so stacked against you and your prodigy, why can't you move forth with the same integrity and dignity as that small little turtle emerging out of the sand taking those brave steps with his little flippers toward those breaking waves?

[onlooker]

Someone once said and I paraphrase, I'm a pessimist because of intelligence, but an optimist because of will.

[Lore]

With the odds so stacked against you and your prodigy, why can't you move forth with the same integrity and dignity as that small little turtle emerging out of the sand taking those brave steps with his little flippers toward those breaking waves?

Unless, you are that baby sea turtle which stretches its little flippers and with all the integrity you can muster scramble mightily to reach the breaking surf and the open ocean. Only to find, just before your first taste of that sweet sea water, you get swept up in the beak of a gull.