[jesus_of_suburbia]

I was mentioning how in my daughters peer group there are those who are pursuing this career in IT. They do have a good earnings outlook. And those who are unplugging in creative ways from BAU. This is also a pragmatic approach for those whose perspectives of long term wage slave status at low wages isn't going to deliver on the quality of life their parents were able to enjoy. So they are gravitating toward more sharing of resources and frugality and they want time over security, working various gigs, being resourceful, taking time off to travel and volunteer, maximizing their quality time this way instead of attempting to go on a career path on a treadmill that will not lead to any meaningful prosperity. I am just curious how they will further mature in a constrained economy.

The ones with romantic notions are oldsters speculating. The young are actually dealing with their own set of day to day struggles. Pragmatic all around whether you choose a high paying career path of choose an alternative to BAU.

I'm a young person currently pursuing a degree in health informatics. It's not a really a new career path for me, more of a means to advance. Many health informaticians are current/former clinicians, myself included. It's not a wildly appealing field to me, but it does offer a few things:

1) More money, which is always nice.
2) The potential to work from home.

I don't really want to make more money to buy more stuff, but instead want to give my wife the option to stay at home with our family. We currently limit our expenses so that she can work part time. Really, if we were super careful with our budget, she probably could quit altogether.

I don't really see a place for IT-related fields in the intermediate to distant future, but if it helps me to make it through the next round of economic struggles, I think it's worth it. I'll figure out the next step once the picture becomes more clear. I'm not going to commit to a long term plan with what's likely to be a chaotic future with an undetermined timeline. I have no plans to bug out somewhere, because I would likely lose many of my social connections. I live in what many here might consider a deathtrap in Chicagoland, but I don't really see benefit from uprooting my family when pretty much all of our extensive network of family, friends and connections are all here.

Someone I was discussing this with on another forum, who was a pretty hardcore prepper, said that his area wasn't the most ideal place either (Montreal), but he felt things would have to get ISIS/Boko Haram bad for him to abandon ship. This again was due to his social connections. I tend to agree with him, though I know many here want out of population centers.

[Outcast_Searcher]

The middle class was enabled thru royalties from oil&gas exploration and development.

And, no, I don't understand the common "Get a job" mentality. Who the hell are the "job providers" and if they don't have an obligation to employ a tax payer than why should I pay taxes?

Either you have a claim on hard resources or you don't.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! I find your argument without merit.

Unless you believe in something for nothing, you should pay taxes because either:

1). You want government services, poor a value as they may be.
2). You don't like ass-raping prison.

(I'll admit to some connection to both items. Given that big government is the reality in modern day America).

At the risk of stating the obvious, the job providers are providing JOBS. If they're not the type of jobs folks like you who do NOTHING but complain favor, well boo hoo for you, but they're still providing jobs. If you want to do better, feel FREE. Funny how 99% of those whining about corporate American jobs provide few or no jobs. And funny how the job providers, as a class, pay a hell of a LOT of taxes.

There is still honor in actually being a TRADER and providing value for value (i.e. honest labor for a day's pay). If, in your mind, somehow if you don't have a claim on "hard resources" you're doomed, then fine. OTOH, how do you EARN the right to purchase such "hard resources" and food, housing, clothing, etc. each day without a job (at least until you earn your way into the much-hated "investor class"?

And again, at the risk of stating the obvious: Earning doesn't equate to complaining.

[PrestonSturges]

That NY Times article seemed like a scam. Change careers with 3 months training? Twenty years ago with full employment and the dot com boom, yes it was possible, but those days are long gone and never to return.

[Keith_McClary]

That NY Times article seemed like a scam. Change careers with 3 months training? Twenty years ago with full employment and the dot com boom, yes it was possible, but those days are long gone and never to return.

Oh ye of little faith:

[SeaGypsy]

Hey cool! I can get an Indian with a Masters in IT, for 1% of that! Big free bucks here I come!

[Ibon]

But it takes work to land a job that doesn't feel like a ball and chain every day you go to work. It's all too easy to just throw up your hands and think it's impossible.

I can understand how you might have misunderstood me. I am not saying anything about throwing up your hands or that you can't get ahead. We all know that part of maturity is doing what you don't want to do, paying your dues doing the grunt work as your ambition, if you have it, gains you experience. This is the formula for those pursuing traditional career paths but even more so if you are going to follow a less traditional alternative. Read what Sea Gypsy wrote on the thread "My meltdown of Ice" regarding his work ethic.

My point is that for those that seek alternatives to BAU as it fails to provide livable wages in many fields is that having ambition and drive and disposition to hard work will be even more of a prerequisite. This is not the old hippy narrative of dropping out. It is a new narrative of resourcefulness and learning to be a valuable resource in your community.

Time, community, sharing resources, teaching and learning valuable skills, frugality. If you are not in a mainstream career path in a field that still has resilient wages then you do have the option of achieving other kinds of "wealth" to supplement less income. This other source of "wealth" I have begun to witness in quite a few millennials. Some of this is just the inherent flexibility of youth in sacrificing materialism for enriched experiences. It remains to be seen how this generation ages.

This is where we should be focusing in any event about shifting cultural values going forward, not on the prose of aging baby boomers but on how the young generation manages as we progress with the opening chapters of a less resilient economy with more constraints.

[ennui2]

That NY Times article seemed like a scam. Change careers with 3 months training? Twenty years ago with full employment and the dot com boom, yes it was possible, but those days are long gone and never to return.

You think these people are just lying? Some people just can't break out of their narrative.

[ennui2]

those whose perspectives of long term wage slave status at low wages isn't going to deliver

Is that kind of a euphemism for white-trash idiots?

ennui2....whoa there, you are way out of bounds on that one. There are lots of people at this site and their children who choose to live unconventional lives---there is no call for you insult them.

Just the reverse. I felt that Ibon was making judgments that certain people's career advancement was hopeless, maybe counting them out due to some snap judgment based on their background or whatever they've fallen into rather than their innate potential.

This kind of discussion can easily veer into an infinite nature vs. nurture argument over how certain types of people may be born with more innate talent or challenges that either enables or prohibits them from traditional career success.

For instance, wouldn't it have been easy to make a sweeping assumption that Indians or Chinese could never cut the mustard in high tech 20-30 years ago? Now many of them are, because they invested in education, and culturally they are HUNGRY to move ahead.

The objection I have to some of the rhetoric here is that it comes across as anti-intellectual or class-warfare-like. It sets up a false dichotomy of farmers and mechanics vs. pimply fat coders and pony-tail entrepreneurs selling mobile apps.

Whether someone prefers this or that lifestyle is a separate issue. If we're talking about simple prosperity, making a six figure salary as a coder beats being an Uber driver. It just does. And the majority of people out there would prefer that white-collar-salary if they can get it, and the idea of staring at a screen all day isn't as abhorrent as it is to some here, if it means they can pay for health insurance and college for their kids.

[Keith_McClary]

That NY Times article seemed like a scam. Change careers with 3 months training? Twenty years ago with full employment and the dot com boom, yes it was possible, but those days are long gone and never to return.

You think these people are just lying? Some people just can't break out of their narrative.

How do these fabulous starting salaries compare to what you make with all your years of education and experience?

[ennui2]

How do these fabulous starting salaries compare to what you make with all your years of education and experience?

Go google it.

This one is dated but there must be other pages like it around.

http://work.chron.com/starting-salary-d ... 10848.html

And are you really telling me you think that entry-level people deserve to start out at the top of the wage-scale? Starting salaries in IT are still a lot better than the average a day-laborer makes in the much-hyped "sharing" economy. That kind of work is nice as a backup but I would never advocate going in that direction as a first-choice.

Plus how much you make and whether you are given a break or not is very much a function of supply and demand. When there's a shortage of talent (and there is currently in IT) then less experienced people are more likely to be given a shot if they can at least show a willingness to learn on the job.

[Ibon]

The objection I have to some of the rhetoric here is that it comes across as anti-intellectual or class-warfare-like. It sets up a false dichotomy of farmers and mechanics vs. pimply fat coders and pony-tail entrepreneurs selling mobile apps..

I don't see this dichotomy existing among the young adults I have had the pleasure to talk with. That is the only relevant concern you have to really worry about, not what any of us obsolete baby boomers say.

[ennui2]

I'm Generation-X, not a boomer, BTW.