[radon1]

Looks like Pooty got his titty twisted, better put on a shirt.

At the end, Pu was not the one jumping off from the attacked plane with a parachute (though that's not his fault). A copter coming for the rescue was attacked too and another guy killed. Another black hawk down in the making.

[dissident]

ignore the 10 warnings

Can anyone produce evidence of what those "10 warnings" constituted exactly? Did they wave their hands 10 times?

The MoD representative says that no evidence of warnings has been identified.

The Erdo-turd-land claims are hilarious. The distance of the "transgression" in the their map of the alleged flight path of the Russian jet is about 3 km. That means that they issued 10 warnings in 17 seconds. Or one warning every 1.7 seconds. Clearly there is no way in Hell, even according to their radar "data", that they could have shot down the Russian jet in response. They could only shoot it down by launching the attack even before it entered their air space.

[Cog]

Warnings to aircraft approaching a border are routine. The Turks didn't have to wait until the Russian aircraft actually penetrated the border to warn them. The Turks have, in the past repeatedly warned Russian and Syrian aircraft to stay out of Turkey. Well, today was the big payoff. I have little doubt the Turk pilots were laying in wait for the Russian pilots to do this again. Splash one Mig.

Good shoot down and hopefully the Russians learned something from it. But knowing the Slavic mind, clogged by pride and vodka, probably not. Here is to more shoot downs of stupid Russian pilots.

[Newfie]

Dissident,

I watched the video of posted above but it doesn't make sense to me. I don't see the Russian plane.

I'm assuming the green track is the Turkish F16?

Who prepared the video?

[frankthetank]

"The announcement is a significant escalation of rhetoric after Syria shot down a Turkish plane last week.

Erdogan criticized Syria harshly on Tuesday for shooting down the Turkish fighter jet, saying: "Even if the plane was in their airspace for a few seconds, that is no excuse to attack."

"It was clear that this plane was not an aggressive plane. Still it was shot down," he said."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/26/world/mea ... ria-plane/

[AgentR11]

The point is the Turks shot as soon as the Russians crossed the border. As they had a right to do. Now Russia is likely to shoot as soon as the Turks cross the border of Syria, which the Russians have a right to do.

The question then is... where do we go from there.

What they learned is that they have to be able to return fire any time we fire at them. The ground attack bomber was un-escorted. (kinda dumb, aka Russian, but they were taking everyone at face value that we were all fighting ISIS) Of course we aren't fighting ISIS. ISIS is our team, just a little bit disobedient at times.

If we had been fighting ISIS, they wouldn't have been in possession of a thousand plus tanker trucks in the middle of a wide open desert.

Now they will be in possession of zero tanker trucks, zero refineries, which is going to cost Turkey untold millions in revenue.

[AgentR11]

The Russian jet crashed 4 km inside Syria. It was shot down over Syria. Turkey does not have the right to shoot down any aircraft over foreign air space. It at most has the "right" to shoot one down over its own territory.

It looks like the Turkish F16 fired at the moment the Russian jet entered Turkish airspace, then the Russian jet (a bomber, not an agile fighter) tried to evade on into Syria, took the hit well within Syrian airspace, and then crashed.

So its a "legal" kill if the Turkish map presentation is accurate. My point is that things can be legal and still be really really stupid and dangerous.

[frankthetank]

This just escalates everything and it won't be good for anyone...Turkey especially... all to protect ISIS and the oil shipments. I suppose Erodagan needs more money for his 200 room mansion castle he is building. I wonder if they cleaned up all the body parts from the protesters they blew up a few weeks back?

If Putin was smart he'd just send a nuclear tipped Iskander into Ghawar...

--scratch that..its 1000 rooms--

"Recep Tayyip Erdogan may have been elected Turkey's president in August, but he's only now getting settled in his new post. A $615 million brand-new palace — four times the size of Versailles, the gold standard of historical opulence — would make anyone a bit more comfortable."

https://news.vice.com/article/a-look-at ... versailles

[radon1]

I don't see the Russian plane.

There is a red track in the middle of the map up until 50ish seconds, then it disappears. The crash moment, presumably.

[dissident]

Dissident,

I watched the video of posted above but it doesn't make sense to me. I don't see the Russian plane.

I'm assuming the green track is the Turkish F16?

Who prepared the video?

The Russian MoD. It agrees with the Turkish squiggle in that the F16 (green line) was loitering in Turkish air space waiting to hit the Russian jet. The Russian video has the red line of the shot down jet slice the tip of the Turkish territory, again in agreement with the Turkish squiggle, but in disagreement with other claims by the Russian MoD.

The response to this attack is the correct one. Keep pounding Erdo-turd-land sponsored terrorists in Latakia and make sure to shoot any Turkish jet or missile that is launched over Syrian air space. It seems bombing the oil supply lines hit Erdo-turd in the 'nads and he lashed out.

[Shaved Monkey]

Interesting considering Russia wanted to run their gas through Turkey to by pass the Ukraine.

[frankthetank]

Interesting article on NSA spying of Turkey...and also the NSA helping Turkey kill/track Kurds...

https://theintercept.com/2014/08/31/nsaturkeyspiegel/

[Newfie]

Thanks, my damn internet is so slow there is tons of pixilation and it kinda hid the red plane.

No fiber here, just DSL and I'm leaving in 2 months anyway.

[dissident]

The point is the Turks shot as soon as the Russians crossed the border. As they had a right to do. Now Russia is likely to shoot as soon as the Turks cross the border of Syria, which the Russians have a right to do.

The question then is... where do we go from there.

What they learned is that they have to be able to return fire any time we fire at them. The ground attack bomber was un-escorted. (kinda dumb, aka Russian, but they were taking everyone at face value that we were all fighting ISIS) Of course we aren't fighting ISIS. ISIS is our team, just a little bit disobedient at times.

If we had been fighting ISIS, they wouldn't have been in possession of a thousand plus tanker trucks in the middle of a wide open desert.

Now they will be in possession of zero tanker trucks, zero refineries, which is going to cost Turkey untold millions in revenue.

Your interpretation is very selective. It is not even an established fact that the Russian jet actually sliced through Turkish territory, i.e. the 3 km penis that projects into Syria. This is merely the claim of the Turks. Also, the missile was launched *after* the alleged 17 second transgression not during it which can be quite readily calculated from the position of the Russian jet when it crashed. It was too far away from the Turkish land penis for the missile to have been launched at it at that time.

[frankthetank]

Interesting considering Russia wanted to run their gas through Turkey to by pass the Ukraine.

Thinking the same thing...i kind of wondered how that was going to work when it was brought up a while back. I've followed the Ukraine conflict very closely and remember this as some sort of work around...not going to happen now me thinks. They'll have to lay more pipe to Germany through the sea up there or get Ukraine to send the gas onward. Maybe Putin will finish the job he started in Ukraine and turn Kiev into Grozny.

[frankthetank]

Turkey is screwed when it comes to resources...no wonder they need ISIS

[AgentR11]

Your interpretation is very selective. It is not even an established fact that the Russian jet actually sliced through Turkish territory, i.e. the 3 km penis that projects into Syria. This is merely the claim of the Turks. Also, the missile was launched *after* the alleged 17 second transgression not during it which can be quite readily calculated from the position of the Russian jet when it crashed. It was too far away from the Turkish land penis for the missile to have been launched at it at that time.

I am granting them a large benefit of the doubt, as I said; and I also said I don't particularly trust their presentation.

As there's no way for us civilians to validate either radar track presented, or time stamps, or any of that; we have to speculate a bit.

My approach is to point out that legal or not, it was a really stupid thing to do; and legal or not, the cost of doing what Turkey did will vastly exceed any benefit they think they'd gain from it. It certainly won't deter Russia. It certainly won't spare any of their oil thievery mission, and it definitely won't keep those "turkmen villagers" alive.

God.. I'm ticked off enough to use scare quotes on somethings. That's pathetic.

Here's the bug that bothers me the most.

Turkish F16, in Turkey, fires on Russian bomber escorted by fighters in Syria; fighters return fire along with a bunch from S300; Turkish fighter is hit and crashes in Turkey; Turkey then claims they didn't fire on the Russians, and invoke Art 5.

Part of the responsibility of being part of NATO from a Westerners PoV, is that you won't unnecessarily pick a fight that would have a harmful effect on the other treaty members. I think Turkey may have forgotten that, and I *HOPE*, in that little private meeting they had today, that they got read the riot act, as it were.

[frankthetank]

Do we have pictures/videos of these "turkmen" villagers being blown apart? I watch a ton of LL videos on their Syria channel and not sure i've come across that. Its usually "Allah Akbars" with TOW missiles blowing up guys on farm machinery/bulldozers/etc... A lot of spraying and praying... Maybe Putin is bombing villages...in that case...i can see what Turkey would be pissed...especially if they have nothing to do with this war...but i have my doubts and my guess is that the area is being used as a transit for oil...

Pretty boy Lindsey Graham wants American boots on the ground (hey..as long as its not him) and a no fly zone. Maybe Obama should give in and put that into action...

[dissident]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-2 ... er-reality



17 seconds to fly 1.15 miles implies a speed of 391 km/hr which is basically stall speed for the Su-24. So the Erdo-turd-land story is a crock and this just confirms their squiggles were produced by some autistic child and not actual radar data.

[frankthetank]

One of the pilots is safe back at an airbase in Syria... So i guess there is something good out of it.

This sounds more and more like an ambush.

Russia should have had fighter jets up there ready for this...so in some ways they are dumb for not predicting this would/could happen. If that was the case...i wonder if the f16s would have even approached the now destroyed Russian bomber.