[PrestonSturges]

But this was a mystery to the US govt? LOL

As much of a mystery as to how the pentagon was surprised that ISIS managed to take over some 70% of Syria.

You just can't make this shit up.

Or that the CIA did not see the collapse of the USSR coming because they were overestimating its industrial production by 3X.

I'm guessing we weren't hitting the tankers because we lacked ground attack aircraft since we pulled out of Iraq, and Apaches were bound to get shot down now and then, and then our pilots would be shown getting decapitated or torched alive. Putin can bomb schools and lose aircraft without fear of being criticized, because he doesn't hesitate to kill journalists.

Now were once more flying the A-10 (which the Pentagon still hates). Gun camera footage of attacks on the tankers shows A-10 strafing runs. I'm not sure where they are based.

The Russians have set up their airbase close to the front line in Syria (they have always had a military treaty and naval base with Syria) at what seems to have been a nearly abandoned base.
https://www.rt.com/news/317528-latakia- ... m-airbase/

Meanwhile, last month in Kunduz, Afghanistan, an Air Force AC-130 level leveled a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ctors.html

Doctors Without Borders...The group said that on September 29 it relayed the exact location of its clinic in Kunduz to the U.S.-led coalition, in order to prevent the facility and its 180 staff and patients from coming under attack...It’s not clear whether the military got the memo.
...
At 2:08 in the morning local time on October 3, the first munitions struck the clinic. The blasts continued at 15-minute intervals until 3:15, according to Doctors Without Borders. “The main central hospital building, housing the intensive care unit, emergency rooms and physiotherapy ward, was repeatedly hit very precisely during each aerial raid, while surrounding buildings were left mostly untouched,” the group stated
...
“The bombs hit and then we heard the plane circle round,” Heman Nagarathnam, in charge of Doctors Without Borders’ programs in northern Afghanistan, said in the statement. “There was a pause, and then more bombs hit. This happened again and again.”
...
“When I made it out from the office, the main hospital building was engulfed in flames,” Nagarathnam added. “Those people that could had moved quickly to the building’s two bunkers to seek safety. But patients who were unable to escape burned to death as they lay in their beds.” Ten patients and 12 staff members died and 37 people were hurt, Doctors Without Borders stated. At least three of the dead patients were children, according to the group.

[ROCKMAN]

Preston - Sorry but I don't buy it: the US could have taken out the tankers with smart bombs dropped from altitudes above the range of any ISIS aaa anytime we wanted to. And BTW it's not the Pentagon that hates the Hog...it's been the Air Force that has been trying to permanently sh*t can it. The Army grunts luv it.

Listened to very interesting live interview with Syrian and Russian ministers meeting in Moscow. In very clear and unambiguous terms they accused Turkey of DIRECTLY supporting ISIS and other "terrorists" operating in Syria (I assume thy mean anti-Assad fighters). Doing so by supplying arms, money, open access across the Turk border, staging areas in Turkey and other logistical support.

We'll see what comes from such accusations, if anything. OTOH those words also sound like clear justification for Syria to declare was on Turkey. After all those were the same justifications used by the US to wage war against Iraq, weren't they? What's the difference between Iraq supporting Muslim terrorists back then and Turkey doing the same today? In fact it sounds like the US would be justified attacking the Turks. I wonder how NATO would respond if one member attacked another member? LOL.

[davep]

We'll see what comes from such accusations, if anything.

Russia has already bombed a convoy going from Turkey to a town within five km of the border with nary a peep from the Turks. This was where Turkey wanted their buffer zone so they could supply a staging post for the various Islamist factions with impunity. Shouldn't have taken out that bomber, idiots.

[AgentR11]

In the US we hate the A10 because its not casualty immune; its very effective, tough, but when you use them, the enemy will kill them. Unfortunately, we've made pilots into celebrities; so, when one gets splattered we have this hollywood production on their rescue; whereas a tank commander gets blown up; meh, scrape him up and put him in a bag, carry on. A10 pilots are essentially tank commanders in the air; you should assume plenty will get blown up; but also that they will have a large impact on the fight on the ground. But we left that game long ago. Pilots are movie stars, and we can't have movie stars getting blown up every day.

Of parallel note, Russia has agreed to sell China S400's and some interceptors without precondition of Chinese production. Two pieces arise from this fact; Russia now has a strong reason to watch for a legit kill on a NATO aircraft; preferably an F15/F16; (dream would be an F22 doing something that would make it a legit target, but Obama is timid and our military ain't that dumb).

If they make the kill on a modern NATO jet with S400; its value to China goes through the roof; and they'll buy as many of them as Russia can produce, as fast as Russia can produce them.

Secondly on the jets without production in China; this is a signal to Russia that China is happy with their linked economies. Russia wants to buy bunches of stuff China makes; to balance ex/im flow, China needs to buy lots of Russian stuff; they have a gold backed pair of banks that can settle bilateral trade, and unique, complemetary competences that if they trust; they can leapfrog ahead up to very near our own US capability.

This sale is simply that. Circumstances have allowed them to realize they can trust each other's motives. Something we actively kept them from doing for decades.

[ROCKMAN]

Agent - Speak for yourself. "We" luv the Hogs and there pilots. Just like we luv marines. And both groups are willing to risk their lives for us die...that's why "we" luv them, you filthy commie. LOL.

[ROCKMAN]

With all the chatter about ISIS stealing Iraq oil...

www.ibtimes.co.uk/iraq-crisis-isis-sells-stole...Aug 23, 2014 - It is able to generate $2 million per day through the sale of oil and finance its operations.”. ... Isis militants are selling their oil between £15 ($25) and £36 ($60) per barrel

I never thought about who they were selling that oil to. But that's not as important compared to how they are getting it to the buyers. Just takes 10 seconds looking at map to understand they could only be shipping it across Syria to the Med (an area controlled by Assad) or shipping it thru Turkey or Iran. And since Iran has been having problems exporting their own oil that doesn't seem very likely.

Maybe the POTUS and the rest of the US govt doesn't have access to the map. Otherwise they surely would have demanded that the Turks stop facilitation ISIS receiving tens of $MILLIONS in revenue to fund their war against the non-believers, right? Unless, of course, the US really wanted to use ISIS efforts as a proxy to attack the Assad regime. Naa...that would be like the US govt secretly facilitating the sale of arms to Iran (under an arms embargo) to fund the Contras in Nicaragua because funding of the Contras by the government had been prohibited by Congress.

The US would never do either...would it?

[PrestonSturges]

Preston - Sorry but I don't buy it: the US could have taken out the tankers with smart bombs dropped from altitudes above the range of any ISIS aaa anytime we wanted to.

Oh god, I'm going to go out and work in the garage rather than debate comic book fantasies of how on short notice we can drop hundreds of smart bombs on nonmilitary targets on the opposite side of the world. The "Highway Of Death" in Kuwait was the result of an attack by everything an aircraft carrier could throw at it plus tanks, artillery, and Apaches.

And in the case of attacking those tankers (many of which are trucks hauling barrels), I would have liked to see some cluster bombs.

[Subjectivist]

Now that you pointed it out it makes sense why Iran hates ISIS sales of oil, they are undercutting the Iranian cash sales across the border that were created by the international embargo on about a million bbl/day. Sure Iran probably can't smuggle that much black market oil, but whatever they could smuggle is competing directly with ISIS black market oil.

[ROCKMAN]

"...how on short notice we can drop hundreds of smart bombs on nonmilitary targets on their opposite side of the world." Yes, you should go hide in your garage. Better then embarrassing yourself by trying to explain why the 12+ month period that the US knew ISIS was shipping out oil by tankers is "short notice". LOL.

[davep]

"...how on short notice we can drop hundreds of smart bombs on nonmilitary targets on their opposite side of the world." Yes, you should go hide in your garage. Better then embarrassing yourself by trying to explain why the 12+ month period that the US knew ISIS was shipping out oil by tankers is "short notice". LOL.

Beat me to it

[ROCKMAN]

sub - Also makes me wonder how much of the "ISIS oil" was bought by China. Imports of large quantities of oil would leave some sort of paper trail in most counties that could be subject to subpoenas. Except for China. Heck, China won't even document how much legal oil they buy or who they get it from. Add that to the fact that bribing foreign official is not illegal in China...unlike it is in the US and EU. And da! Of course Russia doesn't want that oil competing with their sales.

Does seem to make for a clearer picture of the dynamics at play, doesn't it.

[PrestonSturges]

Wikipedia has a pretty thorough history of the US bombing of ISIS for the last year with a coalition of Arab countries. International reaction was generally lukewarm while Russia called it "without the consent of the legitimate government" and said that "this step, in the absence of a UN Security Council decision, would be an act of aggression, a gross violation of international law."

I doubt that you guys cared to look that up, and I'm not interested in whatever fantasy you spontaneously generated to fill in the blanks for the last year.

Also, I don't know where our planes were based, but they were refueling in midair, so no we haven't had the ability to just show up and dump a hundred smart bombs at the drop of a hat. Again, that's a comic book fantasy.

You want something different? Fine, not a problem, but if you're not even curious about what's been happening, go play with your dolls.

[Satori]

Turkey Arrests Journalists Who Exposed Erdogan's Weapons Smuggling To Extremist Syrian Rebels

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Turkey_A ... 8/Y/M.html

“deliberately aiding a terrorist organization."

yeah there's someone DELIBERATELY aiding a terrorist organization alright
it's Erdogan and his family

[Plantagenet]

Turkey Arrests Journalists Who Exposed Erdogan's Weapons Smuggling To Extremist Syrian Rebels

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Turkey_A ... 8/Y/M.html

“deliberately aiding a terrorist organization."

yeah there's someone DELIBERATELY aiding a terrorist organization alright
it's Erdogan and his family

And who do you think is providing the weapons to Turkey that are getting smuggled into Syria?

[Satori]

WHAT !!!
I'm shocked

[Whitefang]

Turkey Arrests Journalists Who Exposed Erdogan's Weapons Smuggling To Extremist Syrian Rebels

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Turkey_A ... 8/Y/M.html

“deliberately aiding a terrorist organization."

yeah there's someone DELIBERATELY aiding a terrorist organization alright
it's Erdogan and his family

This is not about nations and their idiocy, last summer the Bilderberg crap had a week meeting with several Turk government, business and media. They are the one's calling the shots, BAU in face of scarcity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_

Bilderberg_ConferenceThe 2015 Bilderberg Conference took place between 11-14 June 2015 at the Interalpen-Hotel Tyrol in Telfs-Buchen, Austria.[1] The hotel had previously held the Bilderberg Conference in 1988.[2]
The 41st G7 summit took place the week before the conference, and was held at the Schloss Elmau, sixteen miles away near Garmisch-Partenkirchen, in Bavaria, Germany.[3

Be a racist and check out the potent Turk ingredients on the list, they together with the rest of the bunch gave us the global war we are having now. Even the Dutch prime minister, I wonder if they promise him to take care of his family when SHTF.

http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/participants2015.html

Gürkaynak, Gönenç Managing Partner, ELIG Law Firm
Koç, Mustafa V. Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.
Mert, Nuray Columnist, Professor of Political Science, Istanbul University
Özel, Soli Columnist, Haberturk Newspaper; Senior Lecturer, Kadir Has University
Sayek Böke, Selin Vice President, Republican People’s Party

As Always lots of Goldman Sachs, the mob banksters, planning wars on a daily basis.

Stoltenberg, Jens Secretary General, NATO
Üzümcü, Ahmet Director-General, Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons

ISIS is part of NATO, a premeditated created opponent, problem and solution. To make people fear and do as you please, take it all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

In its broadest sense, terrorism is any act designed to cause terror.[1] In a narrower sense, terrorism can be understood to feature a political objective. The word terrorism is politically loaded and emotionally charged.[2]

A broad array of political organizations have practised terrorism to further their objectives. It has been practiced by both right-wing and left-wing political parties, nationalist groups, religious groups, revolutionaries, and ruling governments.[3] The symbolism of terrorism can exploit human fear to help achieve these goals

"Terrorism" comes from the French word terrorisme,[5] and originally referred specifically to state terrorism as practiced by the French government during the 1793–1794 Reign of terror. The French word terrorisme in turn derives from the Latin verb terrere (e, terreo) meaning "to frighten".[6] The terror cimbricus was a panic and state of emergency in Rome in response to the approach of warriors of the Cimbri tribe in 105 BC. The Jacobins cited this precedent when imposing a Reign of Terror during the French Revolution.[7][8] After the Jacobins lost power, the word "terrorist" became a term of abuse

[Donetsk]

"Turkey says 10 warnings."

So you are claiming that Turkey sent them 10 warnings in less than 2 minutes; the alleged transit time. That would be a good joke - if this was a laughing matter. It is not, it is the brutal murder of a Russian pilot. Which is a WAR CRIME.

It was not a murder and it wasn't WAR or any other crime. Not according to law and common sense anyway.

[ROCKMAN]

Dave - "...so no we haven't had the ability to just show up and dump a hundred smart bombs at the drop of a hat." And again with the 12+ month inability to drop hats...I mean smart bombs. LOL.

[AgentR11]

It was not a murder and it wasn't WAR or any other crime. Not according to law and common sense anyway.

I pretty sure it's defined as an act of war. A legit, but very unwise and stupid, kill as a result of an enemy aircraft violating a border.

An act of war is not a "war crime". The "warning" thing is meaningless. It neither validates nor invalidates the legality of the kill.

But that's not why it was stupid.

Its stupid because now Putin can justify to his home audience a much more aggressive air defense posture from Latakia, all the way to the Turkish border. Basically, Russia has created a no-fly zone to exclude NATO over North and Western Syria. And Turkey gave him the pass to do it.

[PrestonSturges]

"...how on short notice we can drop hundreds of smart bombs on nonmilitary targets on their opposite side of the world." Yes, you should go hide in your garage. Better then embarrassing yourself by trying to explain why the 12+ month period that the US knew ISIS was shipping out oil by tankers is "short notice". LOL.

Say "Hi" to Ken and Barbie for me.