MonteQuest wrote:And that work is paid for with debt-based fiat money borrowed at interest. Do you deny that?
The medium of exchange makes no difference.
I could pay the interest with work, singing, edifying oratory (at a discount)
MonteQuest wrote:And that work is paid for with debt-based fiat money borrowed at interest. Do you deny that?
You assume that nobody has any assets , cash, income or savings that they might use to buy something. That is just not the case. The availability of credit does accelerate the economy but without it cash is king and life goes on.MonteQuest wrote:And when that purchaser buys that product he uses debt-based money that was borrowed at interest to do so.
Pops wrote:MonteQuest wrote:And that work is paid for with debt-based fiat money borrowed at interest. Do you deny that?
The medium of exchange makes no difference.
I could pay the interest with work, singing, edifying oratory (at a discount)
MonteQuest wrote:Pops wrote: I've said this several times...The economy post peak will be shrinking, so the money supply should shrink too. It will do that automatically as loans are either paid off or defaulted.
But you never answer how that money supply won't shrink to zero. Especially since there is more debt than the money supply.
Pops wrote:MonteQuest wrote: edifying oratory (at a discount)
vtsnowedin wrote:You assume that nobody has any assets , cash, income or savings that they might use to buy something. That is just not the case.
vtsnowedin wrote: Really have you had to borrow every dollar you ever spent?
Pops wrote:Loans will be retired if/when the economy shrinks.
The corresponding deposits will simultaneously disappear.
If there is no profit whatsoever to be had and so no loans to make then bank balances will shrink to cash/reserves on one side and equity on the other.
pstarr wrote:I have no idea what you two guys have been going on about. It is too technical for me. However, given what little I know about money creation (it happens when debts are created and disappears when debts are paid or defaulted on) then it stands to reason that money (the money supply?) can go to zero if there are no more loans made. Does Pops really disagree, or does he just like to irritate you Monte?
MonteQuest wrote:There is no debt free fiat money
pstarr wrote:I have no idea what you two guys have been going on about. It is too technical for me. However, given what little I know about money creation (it happens when debts are created and disappears when debts are paid or defaulted on) then it stands to reason that money (the money supply?) can go to zero if there are no more loans made. Does Pops really disagree, or does he just like to irritate you Monte?
Pops wrote:If you don't accept the difference between commercial bank money and central bank money there is no use me arguing with an unbacked opinion.
Wouldn't matter how many links I put up.
Pops wrote: How could the people with the printing press run out of money?
You are not listening !! All money "IS NOT DEBT. Get it? Your premise is false.MonteQuest wrote:Pops wrote:Loans will be retired if/when the economy shrinks.
The corresponding deposits will simultaneously disappear.
If there is no profit whatsoever to be had and so no loans to make then bank balances will shrink to cash/reserves on one side and equity on the other.
Reserves are not part of the money supply. When you retire the loans, you retire the wealth. One person's loan is another's asset.
Still looking for an answer to my question: If all money is debt, and debt defaults and repayments destroy the money created, what prevents the money supply from going to zero when all debt defaults and/or all debts are paid?
vtsnowedin wrote:You are not listening !! All money "IS NOT DEBT. Get it? Your premise is false.
Quinny wrote:The premise is not false Money = Debt read the links to the Bank of England papers.
pstarr wrote:They refuse to understand the system that supports them. They are like fish that can not see the ocean.
MonteQuest wrote:
Weimar Germany tried using the printing press. The inflation reached its peak by November 1923 but ended when a new currency (the Rentenmark) was introduced. In order to make way for the new currency, banks "turned the marks over to junk dealers by the ton to be recycled as paper.
That's how "the people with the printing press run out of money." It becomes worthless.
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