C8 wrote:SS: (an unfortunate set of initials)
So what's that supposed to mean, it's fascist to just think the minimum wage ought to be the 1974 equivalent? If you want to talk about fascism, it's Trump that gives a lot of those vibes (I don't really think he is, but it's been too close for comfort and I have spoken out a LOT about that).
What the Republican Party really needed was for Jeb Bush types to just suck it up and raise the darn minimum wage and do some real things on healthcare and college costs / loans.
SO THAT WE DON'T GET crazy populists -- or fascists or communists or socialists -- getting elected. I'm establishment, but I'm reasonable. I believe you have to do something for the poor and not let it get too bad, so that they DON'T go out and start voting and start putting in Hugo Chavez types.
I totally get the suffering of average folks. For the record, I am a economic conservative but social liberal- but on this stuff I can tell you that your $15 solution IS NOT CONSERVATIVE by any stretch.
Well it's gonna be the law in Cali and probably New York next, so it's a done thing. It's a trend. I've been talking about it for a year now. I turned out right about it, and I'm glad the "fight for $15" people are succeeding. And a lot of upper middle class and millionaires deserve credit too, they support it as a moral issue.
And even upper middle class are affected by this. Let's get real here folks, do you yourselves or do you not know people that have their twentysomethings still living at home? Making maybe twelve bucks an hour, and they can't ever move out of the house.
They need $15 an hour, at least. And then they could move out of the darn house and start an independent life and we don't need to have a lost generation.
Look it up SS- nothing is killing folks more than rising housing costs.
Get more living wages to more people, and then they wouldn't be dysfunctionally poor so much, and they could get mortgages and become taxpayers too.
I like the minimum wage issue. It's not "welfare." It's not public housing. It's wages for WORK. It requires people to go out and get a job, and then they get a wage for that job, that seems conservative to me.The only people I'd sympathize with are small business owners, that have a tight bottom line and of course they're worried about paying $15 an hour for their employees. If it were up to me, I'd do mandated higher wages for CORPORATIONS and then a lower minimum wage for SMALL BUSINESS. Therefore favoring small business, which is a good idea anyway -- but the corporations would never allow that.
Look folks, it's gonna be okay.. $15 minimum wage is not the end of the world. It'll be okay for small business too, what winds up happening is that their labor cost goes up
*but they also they get more customers* with more money to spend. As for real estate -- we already had a crash on that, and now we're into the start of the 30 year upswing cycle. So that one is what it is, as a homeowner I'm glad it's on the upswing. I lost money in the crash. I'm not keen to lose more money in home equity, just to get housing costs down or something. I'd rather pay an extra fifty cents for my pancakes at Dennys, and that server have a living wage.
The reason for this is runaway regulation of new developments in high density areas- its almost impossible to build any low income housing in LA, SF, NYC or many other places. We have given NIMBYs almost total power in many parts of the nation (an Blue States are the WORST on this issue). You cannot have open borders, mass pop increase and restricted housing- you can well raise the wage to $100 and it won't work. Every wage increase will go into bidding up limited housing. $15 an hour is like a giant cash transfer to landlords.
You raise good points. But fifteen dollars an hour is still better than twelve.
But okay let's say you're right, that it would amount to a wealth transfer to property owners -- well then everybody should be for it, it would raise our property values.
C8, I'm just like a "small c" conservative and I don't like things changing and the gov stopping doing something they used to always do, and all I know is that they used to raise the minimum wage every seven years or so. And then I know, that they stopped doing that (federal level) like 16 years ago or something.
I fully support it going to $15.
I KNOW PEOPLE that need that wage. I support it, I wouldn't vote to pay more sales tax or state income tax or more property tax or higher federal taxes, but I don't mind paying another fifty cents for pancakes at Dennys so they can pay the server a $15 minimum wage.
Capitalism is hogtied in housing.
True, and housing is a separate issue. Again, real estate is now on the 30 year historical upswing cycle.. so why do you think there won't be more built?
It will get built, then crash again thirty years from now, then recover and do the next cycle.
I think you're just trying to make a general "anti minimum wage" argument, like libertarian laissez faire total free market Dubai / Hong Kong type economy. Well, America was like that in the 1800s and early 1900s, but it's not like that now and most people don't want it to be.