[Timo]

Unfortunately for all of us, the mere knowledge of this criminal culture that runs our lives will not change a GD thing. BAU will continue unabated until civilized society disintegrates.

I agree completely. The power to change any of this is in the hands of the elite, and they like it just the way it is. It will take guns and blood to make any appreciable change.

How many guns, and how much blood will have to spill before any meaningful change happens? The systems of corruption run too deep. Would you be willing to remove the heart of the villain (all of humanity) to absolve the beast of its sins?

Where do you start, and when do you stop?

Eventually, the prosecutor becomes the beast that must be stopped before society collapses completely.

I have heart disease. Therefore, if i remove my heart, i should be fine.

[onlooker]

That is what happened during the French Revolution. It got out of hand and pretty soon everybody was turning on everybody. Bloodshed brings more bloodshed. What must be killed is not people but ideas. The wrong ones.

[AgentR11]

Putin and other Russian government leaders have about 2 billion dollars documented in the Panama Papers.

The documentation does not support that Putin has 2bln in Panama. Which is what the US sanctions might have an impact on. I assure you; that while Putin, like all pols, is filthy rich, his money is NOT hidden in Panama. Its mostly in Russia, and to a certain extent, I'd bet on an account or two in Shanghai.

I thought the US put sanctions on Putin and the other Russian leaders after Russia invaded Crimea? The US sanctions must be pretty toothless if the Russian leadership has looted and transferred billions to the tax havens in Panama.

We did. But sanctions against a country that is both a food calorie and fossil fuel exporter with substantial industrial base is more a nuisance than a problem. And *ANYTHING* Russia doesn't make, I guarantee you that China can make; and China doesn't do economic sanctions; and even if they said they'd do them; they'd cheat so bad it'd make the whole thing look like an incredible farce.

So its not so much that the US sanctions are "toothless"; but rather, there's really not much available for the teeth to bite on.

Put this in a diplomatic pouch and deposit it in my bank vault in Panama.

lol. The gold is Russian state reserves; and they are buying gold at an insane rate, near to what China buys.. but there's a reason. Ruble market is shallow; and floating the renminbi is turning out to be very challenging. (Russia is not import dependent, but China *IS* hugely dependent on energy imports; so rapid fluctuation in renminbi value is not a nuisance but rather a disaster.

Solution? Bob the Russian knows how much gold he can buy, in Russia, for 10k ruble. Joe da Han knows how many renminbi will buy the same amount of gold in China. Both banks build up huge gold reserves; setup balanced forex accounts between them, in gold. All of a sudden, Joe can buy oil from Bob, and Bob can buy smartphones from Joe; and they can both use their own domestic currency, *AND* be assured of getting fair value for their purchases and sales.

And I'll state it again; Russia + China is the one thing, above all else, we should have worked to stop; and we took a welding torch and sealed them together, probably for the rest of the century at least. They have exactly what the other needs; in huge surplus.

[Timo]

Right now, we're looking at a World Revolution.

It might happen in small bits and pieces, but TPTB will do everything possible to keep a lid on we the people to save their own hide. We now have corporate prisons, and private police forces, AKA mercenaries. We've also got several hundred thousand current and former military fighters from across the whole planet who would pick up a gun for a private paycheck if it comes with perks not available through normal military service. The Koch's would hire their own army. Ditto for Halliburton, and EXXON, and BP, and most certainly for Darth Cheney. Private armies would be sanctioned by the UN in order to maintain order on behalf of all member states. We've already seen this in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Private armies eliminate the need for the US military to be involved. Private armies also eliminate the need to hold any one country responsible for the atrocities committed by members of that private army.

We have met the enemy, and he is us. Therefore, we will not pursue justice in any way.

[AgentR11]

Private armies are already acknowledged and have a place within UN context. They are called PMC's.

[Timo]

Will the UN deploy its own private army?

Hypothetically, would that private army be used for good, or evil?

And for whose good, and against what evil?

We have already seen the war to end all wars, and it didn't seem to work as predicted.

I guess that was just a trial run to see what would need to be tweaked when the real war is unleashed.

[Plantagenet]

Thanks AGENT, for your comments above.

Hey---here's another question for you or anyone: I wonder if this is a big enough financial scandal to be a "Lehman Bros." type of event and cause big problems in the global financial system.

You've got the leaders of countries like Russia and Iceland caught. You've got sports figures and top movie starts. And there will will many many people caught up in this (please god, let Donald Trump and Hillary both be found to be invested in tax scams in Panama!).

AND someone earlier said the US has total access to the banks records in Panama, and that implies that the Treasury Dept. and the US government knew all along about these tax havens and others scams in Panama ---- and was basically complicit?

This is going to lead to investigations and more investigations in countries around the world. Will other tax havens in other countries start to be exposed?

This could be big---but will it be big enough for the global financial system to stumble over this?????

?????

[AgentR11]

Plant, its NOT big. Its minuscule in the regular scheme of things. It may cost a few European leaders their jobs, and a few banker's bonus's MIGHT be a little smaller in London this year; but otherwise, I wouldn't expect anything terribly interesting to happen.

[Plantagenet]

Plant, its NOT big. Its minuscule in the regular scheme of things. It may cost a few European leaders their jobs, and a few banker's bonus's MIGHT be a little smaller in London this year; but otherwise, I wouldn't expect anything terribly interesting to happen.

Oh. OK.

Darn!!

Thanks for the quick reply, Agent.

[vox_mundi]

The fifth estate broke this story ... that tells you something

Perfectly Reasonable Question: Why No Big Splash for ‘Panama Papers’?

The “Panama Papers” are being called the largest ever leak of secret data, and articles about the offshore bank accounts of bigwigs worldwide — developed by a global consortium of journalists — began appearing Sunday afternoon. They burst into the Sunday afternoon news lull, getting huge play in media outlets around the world and in the United States.

By Monday, I had heard from many Times readers who wanted to know why The Times didn’t seem to be giving the news a big ride. The Times posted a wire-service article on Sunday afternoon. It wasn’t until 9:15 p.m. that a staff-produced piece of moderate length went onto the website. It was not given prominent display; in Monday’s paper, the story did not make the front page. It ran at the top of Page A3.

The medieval concept of "three estates of the realm" (Clergy, Nobility and Commons)

Fourth Estate, is essentially the mainstream press

Fifth Estate is a socio-cultural reference to outlier viewpoints in contemporary society, and is most associated with bloggers, journalists, and non-mainstream media outlets.

... Esquire’s Charles Pierce wrote Monday that the revelations raise the distinct possibility “that every political system in the world — even the nakedly authoritarian ones — is hopelessly rigged, and that the marvelous new world of the miraculous global economy is an even bigger thieves’ paradise than you, me, or even Jamie Dimon thought it was.”

and since we're talking about elites ...

From NPR: Human Sacrifice Is Linked To Social Hierarchies In New Study

Saying they found "a darker link between religion and the evolution of modern hierarchical societies" than has been previously suggested, a group of scientists say ritual human sacrifice promoted stratified social systems – and helped to sustain inherited class systems once they were established.

After comparing dozens of societies, the researchers found that ritualized human sacrifice was far more common in highly stratified societies than it was in egalitarian societies. Noting the high level of overlap between religious and political sectors in the societies, the scientists write, "human sacrifice may have been co-opted by elites as a divinely sanctioned means of social control."

Acknowledging that their findings might be "unpalatable," the scientists say, "our results suggest that ritual killing helped humans transition from the small egalitarian groups of our ancestors, to the large stratified societies we live in today."

Their findings, the researchers say, are "consistent with historical accounts that speculate that in order for human sacrifice to be exploited by social elites, there must first be social elites to exploit it."

[americandream]

Good stuff vox. Nice sequential look at the nature of society and its forms.

That said, the forms adopted by societies tend to reflect the quality of the surplus extraction, storage and accessibility. In earlier forms of primitive communism with transient and nomadic resourcing accompanied by low pop densities, coupled with more rudimentary consciousness, stratification was not contemplated (within the historic functions in those social relations...not until we move to the agrarian revolution and settled living, where population pressures give rise relations, conquistidorial, territorial and elitist). Elites are as natural to those relations as a crust is to a baked loaf. Limited value in the style of resourcing dictates a more stratified order for the survival of the species, the level of consciousness being the limiter.

Capitalism however, along with the rise in consciousness (the Englightenment as well as other centres of Reason including Confuscianism, Buddhism and Sufism) has heralded a more innovative age, with the resultant rise in a more fluid and merit based elite with the underlying driver in that being liberalism. All of that resting on the accompanying rise of reason, is seeing the emergence of a much more nuanced elite (in the midst of the residual incompetence that still lingers from our feudal past). I don't even want to touch on climate as that is a whole nother ball game and is liable to get the doomers on here excited and agitated. But the continued but fading presence of all the head chopping bedsheet wearing KKK ISIS Wahhabist Nazi nationalism that lingers has more to do with the transitional nature of dialecticism as it moves across, from one historic system to another.

[Plantagenet]

So far no US names have been released in this scandal. This is curious as the breakdown of the total number of clients of the law firm show that there are 441 US clients----more than from any other country.

So why haven't any of the US clients been named?

us-clients-who-are-they

Apparently the group that is leaking the Panamanian data is funded by George Soros. Perhaps Soros won't release the US names because they include some of his US friends?

ChEeRs!

[ralfy]

I think it's the other way round: capitalism is a continuation of feudalism by other means.

Also, "...launder money, dodge sanctions and evade tax." In short, it's not just about tax havens.

Finally, points that refer to the event being a "scandal" or that money is not being kept in one place but elsewhere shows the manner by which this issue has been normalized.

[americandream]

So far no US names have been released in this scandal. This is curious as the breakdown of the total number of clients of the law firm show that there are 441 US clients----more than from any other country.

So why haven't any of the US clients been named?

us-clients-who-are-they

Apparently the group that is leaking the Panamanian data is funded by George Soros. Perhaps Soros won't release the US names because they include some of his US friends?

ChEeRs!

The names not reflecting US money.....there are elites and there are elites and they are constantly at war to shift the blame. Living in constant fear of loss from a more astute player is par for the course (especially with the ranks swelling each passing day) and if these disclosures tell me anything, its to not go sheep. Sure, these disclosures are good for the masses, like they tell me that the uber rich hide their money...but just how new is that? But if you think this is meant to be a favour to the masses, then I have a mighty nice plot of arid land to sell you.

This is a selective throwing of the expendable to the wolves. Not that it will do much other than cause embarrassment....move along.

[vox_mundi]

So far no US names have been released in this scandal. This is curious as the breakdown of the total number of clients of the law firm show that there are 441 US clients----more than from any other country.

So why haven't any of the US clients been named?

us-clients-who-are-they

Apparently the group that is leaking the Panamanian data is funded by George Soros. Perhaps Soros won't release the US names because they include some of his US friends?

ChEeRs!

There's 2.3 Terabytes in this data dump. With over 13,000 significant players. That's 2x the size of the Library of Congress.

A typical 2 page expose is usually only 2,000 words.

Even if they only used last names it would take a week to just name the principals (not even mentioning what they did). Give them time.

The isij.org has already indicated there will be a U.S. data expose.

And it'll be YUUUGE!

OBTW, please post your link between Soros and isij.org

[Plantagenet]

OBTW, please post your link between Soros and isij.org

I already did. Its in my post above that you are commenting on.

OBTW, please read the link that is already in my post before asking me to post the same link I already posted.

Cheers!


Icelanders demand their president resign over Panama tax evasion scandal

[vox_mundi]

OBTW, please post your link between Soros and isij.org

I already did. Its in my post above that you are commenting on.

OBTW, please read the link that is already in my post before asking me to post the same link I already posted.

Cheers!

You are mistaken, your link says nothing connecting Soros and ISIJ.

Actually the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists is funded by the Center for Public Integrity who post their entire donor list at

https://www.publicintegrity.org/about/o ... supporters

Soros is not one of their supporters.

[Plantagenet]

OBTW, please post your link between Soros and isij.org

I already did. Its in my post above that you are commenting on.

OBTW, please read the link that is already in my post before asking me to post the same link I already posted.

Cheers!

You are mistaken, your link says nothing connecting Soros and ISIJ.

No, you are mistaken. The link between funding from Soros and the ISIJ is described in the second sentence of the link that I had already posted when you asked me to post it. Its right there on the linked page.

I don't get why you can't see it. Here's a suggestion---If you can't find it the next time you look, then do a text search on the Zero Hedge article with the word "Soros"---when I did a search on "Soros" it retuned 7 matches---the first one is the mention of the funding from Soros in the Zero Hedge article itself and then there are six mentions of Soros from people commenting disparagingly about the link between Soros and the Open Society Fund and the ISIJ in the article

If those six people commenting on the article could find the mention of Soros in the article, surely you can too.

CHEERS!

[AgentR11]

So why haven't any of the US clients been named?

In my first message on this thread, I answered that question.

Any American that hides money through Panamanian banks is an imbecile. The US / Panama trade treaties give the US Feds essentially domestic treatment in the hunting of cash for tax evasion or drug laundry purposes. IRS can see your transaction in Panama City as easily as they can in Boston.

Now, I don't know (or care) whether Soros funded this particular amusement, but whether he did or not; you are not going to get any American names out of this pot... because the pot is made in Panama.

lol. that's kinda a bad pun... so bad.. I'm gonna leave it!

[Plantagenet]

So why haven't any of the US clients been named?

In my first message on this thread, I answered that question.

Any American that hides money through Panamanian banks is an imbecile. The US / Panama trade treaties give the US Feds essentially domestic treatment in the hunting of cash for tax evasion or drug laundry purposes. IRS can see your transaction in Panama City as easily as they can in Boston.

Thats fine as long as Panama abided by the treaty. But Panama didn't abide by the treaty----Panama has turned out to be a tax haven.

The French also had a treaty requiring bank transparency with Panama---but today the French renounced the treaty and put Panama back on the list of countries that are tax havens.

you are not going to get any American names out of this pot...

There are 411 Americans who made financial deals with this tax haven law firm. Who are they? What are the deals they made?

Cheers!