KaiserJeep wrote:"Remember that the copper rounds are currently trading about $2-$4 per troy ounce. Copper prices however are quoted in pounds, not troy ounce. Since there are about 14.5 troy ounces per pound, the mints that produce these rounds are getting between $29 and $58 dollar per pound for their copper rounds."
...which does not seem related to copper scrap prices, but to .999 fine copper ingots. When you search ".999 fine copper per pound" the retail price is $18.50/lb for those:
Ah, thanks for the explanation. IMO, paying a huge premium to buy copper "ingots" is pretty crazy. Copper is super common. I think GHung as the right idea on this. Copper is copper. Paying something like a 500+% premium on it only enriches some middle man.
This seems to correspond quite well with discrepancies between scrap gold ($450/oz) and .999 fine gold ($1278.63 as of 2PM Pacific time). For both metals, when minted as coins, there is a 50% premium over bulk ingot pricing, for .999 fine metal.
With respect, I think this shows you don't know what you're talking about. at least with gold.
And for copper, the prices you're paying are insane, IMO.
First, scrap prices for rare metals have to do with the cost of separating out the non-gold from the gold which involves melting down, and some kind of physical separation process, none of which is free, or even cheap. Plus there is almost certainly some risk factor in estimating the weight of the target metal in the scrap involved.
Now, unless you're buying RARE coins, if you're paying a 50% premium from gold bullion coins (i.e. common coins like the Canadian Maple Leaf, SA Kruegerrand, American Eagle, etc gold bullion coins), then you're just getting massively taken.
When I started buying such coins from the local coin shop in about 1985, the premium was in the 3 to 5 percent range over gold commodity spot for such one oz. coins. I discovered that at Lee Numismatics (in the 80's) I could get all I wanted for a ONE percent premium over the gold commodity spot, so I quit using the local store. There were some postage charges, but buying, say, 5 or 10 coins made it a no brainer, as the postage didn't increase much per order.
Since I haven't bought physical coins in a couple of decades, I just did 5 minutes of research on the net to see if things have changed. Re the premiums, they haven't changed much.
I have NO IDEA how "good" or honest these companies are, but I recognize them as having been around for a long time, and having current quotes:
This shows gold spot at $1265, and bullion coins in the roughly 3 to 5 percent range, and ingots a bit less.
https://www.apmex.com/category/10000/goldSame story on the premium for gold bullion coins from here.
http://www.bgasc.com/?source=adwords&ad ... U0QAvD_BwEhttps://www.apmex.com/category/10000/goldFrom my 35+ years of investment experience:
1). SHOP prices and reputation before you buy or sell precious metals. It's not illegal for them to rip you off on price -- buyer beware.
2). Do NOT buy ingots and rounds at wildly inflated prices. Normal, common, well recognized bullion coins are frequently bought and sold at "reasonable" premiums, without requiring ASSAY, because dealers can easily tell that they're genuine.
3). Copper is a base metal. Buying "ingots" of that for a truly stupendous premium is just beyond me. You do have to pay a premium if you buy, say, copper pipe to a specific standarized form from Home Depot, but you're paying for the manufacturing, shipping, and inventory, plus a retail market.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.