[asg70]

Your post did not merit anything more than a one word response when you just throw out this tired meme of scorched and lifeless earth.

Why does it trigger you? It's happened before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene ... al_Maximum

The equator (where Panama is) will succumb to wet-bulb temperatures in a worst-case scenario. The enclaves will be towards the poles instead.

Too bad Cid isn't here to argue this point but there's a whole thread you can read through that has been going for about a half-decade if you like.

There are plenty of documentaries that try to quantify what each degree of warming will do to the planet and none of them are pretty:

Part of once temperate regions could become uninhabitable, while humans fight each other for the world’s remaining resources.

You can't just brush it off with a one-liner.

Look. I know you are clasped tightly to your vision of the future, and I respect that. But don't be foolish enough to discount worst-case scenarios just because you're clinging to the hope your bugout will be spared. It's the same sort of cocky provincial attitude that PStarr had when he pooh poohed the California drought. It comes from the ego, not the intellect.

[AdamB]

Use your brain instead of regurgitating bullshit.

This is peakoil.com.

McPeaksters were happy regurgitating bullshit for years and banning those who disagreed with their fantasy league game playing scenario routine long before they converted to climate change doom and changed the means to their preferred end.

Suddenly now folks are supposed to use their brain? Folks were banned for daring to do that in the peak oil days, has the CoC changed to reflect this different standard? Why hasn't Short been told of this new requirement? Half the fun of this place has been the ridiculous bullshit allowed in the door, from the likes of the etp claptrap to pstarr insisting on things having happened that never did or his inebriated posting, 9/11 truthers, Cid and his methane hydrate bomb nonsense, I mean, why take all the fun out of it now?

[Ibon]

I mean, why take all the fun out of it now?

In general I don't challenge folks positions, let all the voices be heard, even those on the extreme.

Charred lifeless planet earth, almost void of life, sometimes you do have to challenge folks though
when they make such bold claims.

The question arises, what projection on to our planet is reflected from the internal world of these
posters who conjure up these images, who find some solace, joy or vindication in such musings.

Does it reflect a life feeling stuck and unfulfilled?

Let's assume with all humility that we all choose a different flavor of delusion here, if this be the case then ask yourself why your choice sees your planet so dark and lifeless? What are the deeper underlying reasons for arriving at such a conclusion?

[AdamB]

Let's assume with all humility that we all choose a different flavor of delusion here, if this be the case then ask yourself why your choice sees your planet so dark and lifeless? What are the deeper underlying reasons for arriving at such a conclusion?

So...psychoanalysis?

[Ibon]

Let's assume with all humility that we all choose a different flavor of delusion here, if this be the case then ask yourself why your choice sees your planet so dark and lifeless? What are the deeper underlying reasons for arriving at such a conclusion?

So...psychoanalysis?

I aint no psychoanalyst and dont pretend to be. That question made is thrown out to the wind like a fern spore, it most likely lands on infertile intolerance but maybe, just maybe, it lands on the fertile soil of inquiry where the receiver can ask themselves why oh why does my personal despair darken my planet to a big ball of charcoal ?

[AdamB]

Let's assume with all humility that we all choose a different flavor of delusion here, if this be the case then ask yourself why your choice sees your planet so dark and lifeless? What are the deeper underlying reasons for arriving at such a conclusion?

So...psychoanalysis?

I aint no psychoanalyst and dont pretend to be. That question made is thrown out to the wind like a fern spore, it most likely lands on infertile intolerance but maybe, just maybe, it lands on the fertile soil of inquiry where the receiver can ask themselves why oh why does my personal despair darken my planet to a big ball of charcoal ?

Might it be that this place is less populated then it once was because the whack-a-doodles did just this, and wandered off to spin fantastic yarns over other types of doomer porn?

[Ibon]

If you can't laugh at wackadoodle humanity your going to get fucked up in the head. They populate vast areas of the human landscape , I would not characterize this site as particularly concentrated with whackadoodles.

Humor is a key component to adapting to a world where peoples delusions trump reality.

I don't pretend to have a handle on the mental gyrations Kudzu Apes will display as we approach the bottlenecks.

I have a much better handle on the integrity
of natural ecosystems and their ability to adapt to climate change.....

[AdamB]

If you can't laugh at wackadoodle humanity your going to get fucked up in the head.

Been hanging out at a doomer website for quite some time. Am familiar with whack-a-doodles and yup, they are pretty amusing.

I have a much better handle on the integrity
of natural ecosystems and their ability to adapt to climate change.....

Including the people?

[Ibon]

Including the people?

Humans are vulnerable to a massive correction of their numbers. Whenever that happens. The human ecosystem seems so dominant and in control but actually it is quite precarious. Far more precarious than natural ecosystems. And beyond accurate prediction as to what events or consequences will trigger a change away from what has been a linear trend line since 150 years in reference to consumption and population growth and toward a cyclical correction.

Not needing to figure it out is a major step in adaptation to uncertain times.

Hanging in the uncertainty without needing to know is actually quite adaptive.

[gollum]

I'm still a hard core peaker. We've gotten very lucky the past few years with a lot of the extraction advances but no more oil exists than did before, we simply became better at emptying the barrel. In the end the peak and decline are probably pushed back a decade or two. Were we able to see past the end of our noses we'd be taking this gift and running with it by coming up with viable plans of what we'll do after oil peaks, we clearly aren't. Fortunately for me I most likely have another decade to pay off my last debts and do what I can to make my lifestyle as sustainable as possible.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I'm still a hard core peaker. We've gotten very lucky the past few years with a lot of the extraction advances but no more oil exists than did before, we simply became better at emptying the barrel. In the end the peak and decline are probably pushed back a decade or two. Were we able to see past the end of our noses we'd be taking this gift and running with it by coming up with viable plans of what we'll do after oil peaks, we clearly aren't. Fortunately for me I most likely have another decade to pay off my last debts and do what I can to make my lifestyle as sustainable as possible.

Well, the transportation network is getting more efficient. Vehicle electrification is progressing. Green energy is progressing.

Technology is doing its usual thing re helping mitigate the effects of incessant global human population growth over time, and the desire by people to consume all they can.

So, yeah, the story would certainly be better if we would smarten up re population growth and consumption growth, but OTOH, the moderate cases by BP, the IEA, the EIA, etc. show plenty of affordable energy and other fossil fuels out to 2050 or so. (They don't really forecast beyond that).

And there's Carbon Engineering, which sucks CO2 directly out of the air, and converts it into synfuels. Or the CO2 can be stored underground.

Just a few years ago this was thought to cost $600 per ton, but now the estimate is about $90 to $250 per ton. Not free, but looking far more viable.

Bill Gates is investing in this, and so are Chevron, BP, and Occidental. (The greens are whining about working with the oil companies, but I say we need to fix the problem and quit worrying about precise ideologies).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHX9pmQ6m_s

[AdamB]

I'm still a hard core peaker. We've gotten very lucky the past few years with a lot of the extraction advances but no more oil exists than did before, we simply became better at emptying the barrel.

Thank you for confirming what ReserveGrowthRulz was telling peak oil dim bulbs a decade ago was right. He got banned for knowing the future, and now you are saying that hard core doomers are admitting it? The irony.

[gollum]

I'm still a hard core peaker. We've gotten very lucky the past few years with a lot of the extraction advances but no more oil exists than did before, we simply became better at emptying the barrel.

Thank you for confirming what ReserveGrowthRulz was telling peak oil dim bulbs a decade ago was right. He got banned for knowing the future, and now you are saying that hard core doomers are admitting it? The irony.

We got a few extra years that we’ll piss away but in the end the result is the same. Is it doom? That’s all about how we choose to handle it but I don’t have much faith in society as a whole. Can we continue business as usual for another hundred years? I doubt it.

[Newfie]

That’s about it, its not whether we will run out or not, depletion is certain.

The argument is really about how long we can string it out before the collapse. It’s a disagreement about adaptation, mitigation and time frames.

Those that insist it will happen at X date are on slippery soil. But just because it haven’t happens on X date does not mean it won’t happen. Or that something else will happen first, like a global financial collapse. Peak Trust.

[AdamB]

I'm still a hard core peaker. We've gotten very lucky the past few years with a lot of the extraction advances but no more oil exists than did before, we simply became better at emptying the barrel.

Thank you for confirming what ReserveGrowthRulz was telling peak oil dim bulbs a decade ago was right. He got banned for knowing the future, and now you are saying that hard core doomers are admitting it? The irony.

We got a few extra years that we’ll piss away but in the end the result is the same.

Could be. But it won't be caused by the oil Rapture event that the hard core peakers were hoping and praying for. More like population growth, some biologic nasty, a decent cosmic collision or maybe even a nice sized geologic event, continental sized basalt flows being one of my favorites.

Nothing wrong with being a doomed related to these easy to understand, happened before and we have examples of it type stuff.

Playing make believe within a couple interrelated sciences fields though that the peakers barely knew existed let alone understood, that has always been playing make believe.

Is it doom? That’s all about how we choose to handle it but I don’t have much faith in society as a whole. Can we continue business as usual for another hundred years? I doubt it.

Maybe not. Peak oil wasn't about all those other things clobbering the species, but how oil was going to cause the great doom and disaster itself. I've got a little natural doomer in me for the real possibilities, but it was the fantasy land parts that just made serious doomers look stupid back then that was irritating.

[gollum]

That’s about it, its not whether we will run out or not, depletion is certain.

The argument is really about how long we can string it out before the collapse. It’s a disagreement about adaptation, mitigation and time frames.

Those that insist it will happen at X date are on slippery soil. But just because it haven’t happens on X date does not mean it won’t happen. Or that something else will happen first, like a global financial collapse. Peak Trust.

I guess we have to define collapse, that can be anywhere from eating the neighbors for some folks to collapse like the Soviets or the Romans to a drop in the standard of living to something like Eastern Europe. Realistically I can prepare for the latter but not the former and doing so doesn't really cost me anything and more than likely gives me a better quality of life and something to do in retirement regardless of the final outcome. If I invest in a modest solar system, some fruit trees, a garden, maybe some fencing I'm not out anything if society adjusts as a whole.

[obixman]

Well, I'm still here... although not as often,. The last year I've had to battle c diff, a massive pulmanary embolism, and colon cancer (simultaneously) followed by chemotherapy (ugh). Now that I am getting better, I'm paying more attention to things.

In the last two decades we've gotten improved extraction techniques, which has pushed back doomsday 2 decades or so. With hybrids and electric cars, we've maybe gained another 5 years or so......

What we haven't done is produced any more hydrocarbons.

Meanwhile, CO2 seems to be inducing climate modification. This will not cause the extinction of our species, but will cause severe stress on and may eliminate advanced civilization. Solar and wind will help with this but probably not prevent it.

It looks as if the climate change issues will occur faster then peak oil. Peak oil is still there, but we probably won't reach it before we have more reading issues. Just based on my recent medical history, you deal with what kills you quickest first.

[AdamB]

What we haven't done is produced any more hydrocarbons.

Know you haven't been around awhile, battling ailments, but perhaps you have missed that OH BOY have we produced more hydrocarbons. Remember when the oil pretenders were claiming this kind of claptrap? You can't even see how much more oil we're producing now on this chart. Same with natural gas.

Meanwhile, CO2 seems to be inducing climate modification. This will not cause the extinction of our species, but will cause severe stress on and may eliminate advanced civilization. Solar and wind will help with this but probably not prevent it.

Yeah, perma doomers needed somewhere to go when being a McPeakster didn't work out so well. The ones that didn't just run away and hide anyway.

It looks as if the climate change issues will occur faster then peak oil. Peak oil is still there, but we probably won't reach it before we have more reading issues. Just based on my recent medical history, you deal with what kills you quickest first.

Climate change hasn't even driven off Atlantic seaboard barrier island residents yet. Peak oil was supposed to level the planet more than a decade ago now, so this climate change thing has been an even worse bust at this point. Maybe by 2050 or so both will arrive at once?

[gollum]

So maybe by 2050 both arrive at once... does anyone have any understanding that if that’s the case mitigation efforts have to happen now in order to be effective? Once the peak arrives there won’t be the resources available to reorganize for a society without oil.

[AdamB]

So maybe by 2050 both arrive at once... does anyone have any understanding that if that’s the case mitigation efforts have to happen now in order to be effective?

Certainly no big deal on oil, as peak demand is now the driving mechanism for long term supply projections. Climate change is one of those "don't live near the coasts" type things, and beyond that run of the mill adaptation.

Once the peak arrives there won’t be the resources available to reorganize for a society without oil.

Of course there will be the resources left. People walking away from using oil is what the analytic power houses are claiming, not the incessantly recycled claim of running out so dear to the Happy McPeaksters.