[Ludi]

Duh????

Maybe it's time to explain photosynthesis.....

[MonteQuest]

Duh????

Maybe it's time to explain photosynthesis.....

Ludi, this is what makes me a "doomer." How can it be, that in this world so dominated by scientific and technological issues, our society continues to permit high school and even college graduates to be so woefully uninformed about the fundamentals of science?

"This level of science illiteracy may explain why over 40 percent of Americans do not believe in evolution and about 20 percent, when asked if the earth orbits the sun or vice versa, say it's the sun that does the orbiting--placing these people in the same camp as the Inquisition that punished Galileo almost 400 years ago. It also explains the extraordinary disconnect between scientists and much of the public over issues the scientists think were settled long ago...200 million Americans out there who cannot read a simple story in, say, Technology Review or the New York Times science section and understand even the basics of DNA or microchips or global warming."

Nor can they even begin to grasp overshoot and ecological limits.

[Homesteader]

Are you saying that this captured carbon was in the atmosphere previously?

Duh????

We are so doomed. This is the most alarming post of the day.

By the way, I did see a dvd last year that showed 60% of harvard grads on graduation day when handed a piece of firewood could not explain where it came from. However they sounded quite erudite and learned while spouting total nonsense. Exactly how they sound on Wall Street.

[44Flattop]

The ban does have one interesting advantage as is. The longer we hold it untapped; the more valuable it becomes.

Not really. It's going to be gone. While we diddle around talking ourselves to death the Chinese, Cubans and Spanish among others trying to get their foot in the door, are all offshore drilling OUR oil.

For some dumb reason only made clear by the Liberal/Soclalists, its OK to let everyone else drill OUR oil but its not ok for us. Hmmmmmmm.

44

[Homesteader]

The ban does have one interesting advantage as is. The longer we hold it untapped; the more valuable it becomes.

Not really. It's going to be gone. While we diddle around talking ourselves to death the Chinese, Cubans and Spanish among others trying to get their foot in the door, are all offshore drilling OUR oil.

For some dumb reason only made clear by the Liberal/Soclalists, its OK to let everyone else drill OUR oil but its not ok for us. Hmmmmmmm.

44

How about a link showing the chinese, Cubans and Spanish setting up offshore drilling rigs inside our 200 mile limit?

[emeraldg40]

I read the link about Alberta's lack of clean up ability in the tar sands project. Huge mess. Hope we are not counting on good clean Canadian drinking water anytime soon. It wont be there. Now THAT is scary. No oil. No problem, NO WATER?

[MrBean]

So are you saying, it is putting ourselves above nature to try to limit our numbers through birth control?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that choosing one of the horsemen, Pandemia, from the right hand list and then expecting governement or dunno what to consciously refuse and forbid any and all help for the victims in order to reduce our numbers, based on some estimates by some experts, is putting ourselves above nature.

[MrBean]

The goal of "helping" nature by reducing our numbers (before we can do more damage on numerical scale and so helping also more of our numbers survive) may seem noble at first, but it's not radical enough, it still repeats the assumption that we are somehow above nature, "supernatural", treating nature as object of human subject.

So, mankind shouldn't limit his numbers as it is an affront to nature?

No, not numbers, just fertility. Nature will take care of the numbers.

[Snik]

Duh????

Maybe it's time to explain photosynthesis.....

Yeah, mistake acknowledged, and removed. Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that (go ahead, have a field day as I know you will/already have). Yes, I do know the prevailing theory about the genesis of hydrocarbons. However, to be fair, there is at least one other that has been out there for a while:

The Modern Theory of Abiotic Deep Genesis of Hydrocarbons: Experimental Confirmation

Conceptions and Indicators of the Abiogenic Oil and Gas Origin and Its Significance

[url=http://www.gasresources.net/Nature(Editor01).htm]
rebuttal of Nature article[/url]

wikipedia article

Anyway, I am not in the abiogenic camp, but if it actually is true though, then there are much larger reserves out there than we presently think.

The rest of my post to Big-Tex stands. Are you really from Texas? I don't meet too many people down here with that kind of attitude. We're usually more of a "let's get it done" than the "wringing the hands, woe is me" type.

[BigTex]

Yeah, mistake acknowledged, and removed. Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that (go ahead, have a field day as I know you will/already have).

It's cool, my friend. I figured it was just a mistake.

The rest of my post to Big-Tex stands. Are you really from Texas? I don't meet too many people down here with that kind of attitude. We're usually more of a "let's get it done" than the "wringing the hands, woe is me" type.

Are you getting "wringing the hands, woe is me"? That's not what I'm sending.

I am from and live in Texas.

I want to "get it done" just as much as you do. Our definition of "it" just differs, I think.

BTW, don't let the folks here scare you off. If you hang around a while you might even grow to like it.

[Snik]

Lol.....yeah, it's kind of fun actually. Discussions like this is what it's all about isn't it? I actually think minds, well, some minds, can be changed, or at least altered a bit to allow at least the chance that there are other possibilities.

[ROCKMAN]

44Flattop

Don't let the media hype confuse you. You don't really need to chase links. I'm a geologist who's been drilling wells in the Gulf of Mexico for over 30 years. No one will be stealing our oil. The international mineral boundaries were set decades ago. Whoever drills in the Cuban waters have the right produce what they find. And, no, they won't slant drill to get to our side of the boundary. Well locations are surveyed by independent thrid parties and are controlled by international law.

But there is a slight possibility that they could produce a little oil that migrates from our side to their side should they find a field that straddles the boundary. Rare but possible. But this is also legal by international treaty. It's called th Right of Capture. In any case, the amount would likely be tiny compared to total US production.

In fact, we might be on the verge of doing just that to Mexico in the western Gulf of Mexico. There are Deep Water prospects lying very close to the US/Mexico boundary. Mexico is decades behind us in Deep Water development. If we were to develop a field straddling the boundary they wouldn't be able to drill and compete with us for those reserves before we would deplete them.

[MonteQuest]

No, not numbers, just fertility. Nature will take care of the numbers.

You are not making any sense. Please elaborate.

[Homesteader]

Lol.....yeah, it's kind of fun actually. Discussions like this is what it's all about isn't it? I actually think minds, well, some minds, can be changed, or at least altered a bit to allow at least the chance that there are other possibilities.

In which camp are you pounding the tent pegs?

My mind is made up and nothing can alter it

or. . .

I have my opinions but they could change as new evidence is presented.

[dinopello]

Edit: Nevermind, I asked an abiotic question. It's too pointless to worry about. Thx.

[joelcolorado]

The energy situation is like a pie. There are eight pieces in a pie. We need to attack it like that.
Wind
Solar
Hydro
Nuclear
Oil
Coal
Conservation

When you have small pieces of each you can make a whole pie. Dependence on one is foolishness. Kansas alone can produce 25% of the NATIONS electrical needs. It will just take work and determination to solve the problem.

A lot of factors do figure into this mess. The size of the average home is now something like 4,000 sq ft. and I know of many two person families who have these big ass homes. I wonder what the average living accomodations are in England and Europe? DOes anyone know?

Plus ppl who think they must have an SUV due to having kids. HAve TWO kids and you can fit in any car. We did growing up and did raising our kids. No tv's in the headrests for us or them. We made them TALK to us and each other and play games. A malibu can raise any family with twice the gas mileage of a van or SUV.

Then you have the toys. Campers which are used twice a year. Boats that use 25 gallons per hour. Jet skis that can use 50 gallons a weekend, riding lawn mowers for city lots, race cars, four wheelers, and all the stuff we never had growing up.

Plus everyone has air conditioning now and we had water coolers. You can see why we use so much energy. Look at computer use in cities etc. and city services are huge. We just built a $3 million dollar visitor center for a town of 20,000 ppl. In kansas, what do you need that for. there is nothing to see and in reality, all those offices full of staff trying to lure companies to relocate out here is a joke. NO ONE wants to live out here unless you are from here. Good lord. We cannot keep professionals and docs as it is. Wind blows, no amenities, and the wives wont stay for sure. So.

I think we can cut back. I have. I dont go to the lake now. I drive a smalll car instead of a truck. I raise a garden. I have lost 35 pounds and eat about a fourth of what i did eat before, walk a lot more, eat out hardly ever,

[AlexdeLarge]

There are people who like to play at being "Doomers". Right now, peak oil isn't real. All the talk of starvation, culling of populations and job losses is all just fun playful talk and banter......until it hits your home, your family............ and not just your neighbor!

When you lose your job and you are about to lose your home, when you are going hungry......then you will realize that only thing standing between us and the abyss is the oil companies! We have do what it takes to keep our families and our children in a home, with food on the plate.

Drill Here, Drill Now!!! Build nuke plants, build coal to fuel plants, pour more money into alternative energy research, raise the cafe standards. Lets get to work!

[Jenab6]

Will drilling alone solve this problem? No. But why would we leave those reserves in the ground? For what purpose? They are doing no one any good underground.

Carbon that stays in the ground is not in the air, raising the global temperature, turning arable regions into deserts, raising the ocean temperature possibly to the point of a mass release of methane from hydrides. That's the good that oil does when it stays in the ground. Powerdown ASAP is more nearly correct than going hell-for-leather on everything we can do to postpone powerdown.

[AlexdeLarge]

Carbon that stays in the ground is not in the air, raising the global temperature, turning arable regions into deserts, raising the ocean temperature possibly to the point of a mass release of methane from hydrides. That's the good that oil does when it stays in the ground. Powerdown ASAP is more nearly correct than going hell-for-leather on everything we can do to postpone powerdown.

Willing to bet your job? Your kids dinner?? Algore Is !!

What if he is wrong and all this is "Politically Correct" hype???

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscor ... 42304.html

Hello Al Gore; Hello UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Your science is flawed; your hypothesis is wrong; your data is manipulated. And, may I add, your scare tactics are deplorable. The Earth does not have a fever. Carbon dioxide does not cause significant global warming.

[Homesteader]

Carbon that stays in the ground is not in the air, raising the global temperature, turning arable regions into deserts, raising the ocean temperature possibly to the point of a mass release of methane from hydrides. That's the good that oil does when it stays in the ground. Powerdown ASAP is more nearly correct than going hell-for-leather on everything we can do to postpone powerdown.

Willing to bet your job? Your kids dinner?? Algore Is !!

What if he is wrong and all this is "Politically Correct" hype???

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscor ... 42304.html

Hello Al Gore; Hello UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Your science is flawed; your hypothesis is wrong; your data is manipulated. And, may I add, your scare tactics are deplorable. The Earth does not have a fever. Carbon dioxide does not cause significant global warming.

"The temperature curve over the past 800,000 years matches the CO2 curve beautifully -- during glacial periods in which the climate is cold, there is less CO2 in the atmosphere," says Professor Thomas Blunier from the Centre for Ice and Climate at the Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen. He explains that when it is cold there is less plant growth, and so there are fewer plants to absorb the CO2 from the air, while more CO2 is absorbed in the oceans, so the final calculation is a low CO2 content in the atmosphere during glacial periods. This produces a lower greenhouse effect, and leads to an even colder climate.

Link: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 131131.htm

I'd be happy to post some more if you are interested. I'm quite interested in your links to peer reviewed research articles that show a disconnect between CO2 and temperature.