[eXpat]

Willing to bet your job? Your kids dinner?? Algore Is !!

You seem to be quite quick to bet that this terraforming experiment of us won´t end up making Earth inhabitable for human beings.

[AlexdeLarge]

My point exactly.

You can goggle and find plenty of scientists and scholars that argue both sides of this debate. They are smart, educated, leaders in their fields..........yet there is no consensus.

So who is right???

For point of argument lets say the burning of hydrocarbons leads to more green house gases which cause GW. What can Man do "now" to change the impact on the climate? In ten years??

Isn't that the same argument that people use against drilling now..... that it will take ten years to come on line??

Most of us at this site believe in Peak Oil. But we have to deal in what is real and present. There is no "current" substitute for oil. But we can drill now for new fields. We can build nuke plants. We can turn coal into fuel.

So the question remains..... are you willing to bet your job and your kids dinner?

[Homesteader]

You can goggle and find plenty of scientists and scholars that argue both sides of this debate. They are smart, educated, leaders in their fields..........yet there is no consensus.

Links to research articles in respected science journals supporting your blanket statements would be nice.

[BigTex]

I'm actually not arguing that we shouldn't drill more because of some kind of Al Gore green thing. I just think that focusing on drilling as a "solution" is obviously misguided.

So we get a five year extension on our consumption orgy, so what? That puts us five years farther down the road of unsustainability.

I guess that my skepticism is not necessarily shared by all regarding the premise that exponential growth, maximizing economic output and harvesting natural resources as quickly as possible is the ideal.

To me, we are digging ourselves into a hole as fast as we possibly can, and complaining about the effects of living in a hole, even as we dig deeper.

[Homesteader]

Agreed Tex,

Drilling off-shore, nukes, alternatives, windfall taxes, summer gas tax holiday, etc. . .are being sold as the solutions such that we can keep on motoring, over-consuming and avoiding discomfort.

Guess its the same old problem, if they were truthful about the extent of the problem and what the future likely holds they wouldn't stand a chance of being elected.

The politician who looks the best while telling the voters what they want to hear is the one who gets elected.

People do indeed get the government they deserve.

[AlexdeLarge]

The Truth....the sheepeople can't handle the truth! LOL

No one has ever suggested drilling is the long term solution. It it is a current solution, along with nuke and coal to fuel.

It's not going to fun when the unemployment checks stop rolling in and the welfare runs out.

Got any other current "viable" solutions other than Jr. going to bed hungry????

[Ludi]

along with nuke

Nuke is a "current" solution? Strange meaning of the word "current" I guess...

[Homesteader]

The Truth....the sheepeople can't handle the truth! LOL

No one has ever suggested drilling is the long term solution. It it is a current solution, along with nuke and coal to fuel.

That is why I said telling the truth is the quickest way to not get elected.

As far as I can tell off-shore drilling is being packaged and sold as the solution to high gas prices. Gas prices are now, producing oil from new offshore areas is an 8-10 year process.

I don't disagree with off-shore drilling, but I don't believe it is going to be providing little Johnny with dinner unless dad or mom work for the companies involved.

[AlexdeLarge]

Nuke is a "current" solution? Strange meaning of the word "current" I guess...

Don't be so obtuse. You know full well that nuclear plants are a current viable energy source.

To those who are thick headed.........current is defined as something that can be done with current technology that will yield a significant power source. Obviously, it takes time for plants to be built, wells to be drilled. So why not start now??

Or are we waiting for the energy fairy to leave us batteries under our pillows???

I'm waiting.....any other ideas??? Being a "Doomer" is not a plan.

[Ludi]

I'm waiting.....any other ideas???

I've posted for years about my ideas, plans, and actions. For years.

[Homesteader]

Nuke is a "current" solution? Strange meaning of the word "current" I guess...

Don't be so obtuse. You know full well that nuclear plants are a current viable energy source.

To those who are thick headed.........current is defined as something that can be done with current technology that will yield a significant power source. Obviously, it takes time for plants to be built, wells to be drilled. So why not start now??

Or are we waiting for the energy fairy to leave us batteries under our pillows???

I'm waiting.....any other ideas??? Being a "Doomer" is not a plan.

First, why the name calling? What is that doing to forward the debate?

Secondly, at the rate that the current nuclear power plants are aging and approaching decommission time compared to the rate that new nuclear power plants are currently being built it seems more likely that we will have a net loss of nuclear power plants.

Currently if memory serves it is a 10-12 year process to license and build a nuclear power plant . That is a long lead time per plant never mind the number needed to actually increase the nations overall electrical generating power. Plus the last nuclear power plant commissioned in the U.S. was in Tennessee in 1992 (again, if memory serves). The U.S. nuclear power industry has been on life support for nearly a generation. How do you propose to ramp it up in order to build McCain's proposed 45 new plants within the next 20 years? I'd love to hear your thoughts and, importantly, see the links you post to back up your thoughts.

Of course the price of building a nuclear power plant is going up all the time and there is a rumor about global credit crisis. And didn't I read, again on this site, the other day that their is only one place in the world that makes the castings for the either the core or the cooling tower? That might cause a bit of a bottleneck, don't you think?

This and a lot more information is available on this site with a little searching.

So yes, obviously, nuclear power is part of our current energy mix however the picture going forward (not current) is not so simple as you would make it appear.

See how easy it was to post all that and not call anyone names?

[BigTex]

To those who are thick headed.........

Alex, my brother, maybe it's time for a little Ludwig van to settle the nerves.

Ludi is not thick headed. You have more to learn from her than she from you.

Civility, comrade. It's the next thing.

[AlexdeLarge]

My apologies Ludi.....Haven't had any fun with my droogies as of late and perhaps I need a little of the ole "In and Out" too.

As always, my concern is for people, their jobs and their famlies.

However, we can bring Nukes online much faster than 8 to 10 years. We can push away the red tape, etc. and build plants with one design....rinse and repeat. I think with a concerted effort, we can drill much faster too.

We have no choice.

[Homesteader]

My apologies Ludi.....Haven't had any fun with my droogies as of late and perhaps I need a little of the ole "In and Out" too.

As always, my concern is for people, their jobs and their famlies.

However, we can bring Nukes online much faster than 8 to 10 years. We can push away the red tape, etc. and build plants with one design....rinse and repeat. I think with a concerted effort, we can drill much faster too.

We have no choice.

Honest question here. What do you feel would need to happen for enough of the politicians, the people, the corporations and the special interest groups to unite behind fast tracking nuke plants?

We still need the materials and expertise to build them, bearing in mind that by the time the U.S. is doing it there will be a concerted world wide effort to build nukes.

[Ludi]

It's ok, Little Alex.

We have no choice.

I don't personally agree, but, best of luck to you in your endeavors. There's no oil in my region to drill for, nor can we have a nuke plant of the current variety here, so it's not my place to shove these "solutions" down someone else's throat. If folks want them in their own back yards, they are welcome to have them. But it's not my right to demand them.


Just my personal point of view about my own personal situation.

[AlexdeLarge]

I can't predict the future...who can.

But I thinks its happening now with only $4.00/gal gas.(One latest poll shows 75% of the public approves of drill here and now and it also showed a strong support for nuke plants.) As gas prices go higher and more jobs disappear.....the pressure on government will grow so intense that the government/politician will respond. A politician's first thought is his own survival and getting reelected. Environmental concerns will be swept aside. As for expertise.....there is no shortage. The technology is old and copying current plants in Europe will not be a problem. As for materials, we can get them by doing what we are doing now....printing more paper.(deficit spending.) Other federal projects will be stopped and everything will be funneled into the new plants.

[AlexdeLarge]

I wish my endeavors could be more....but like most of us, I only have my vote, my voice and what charity I can support.

I have seen poverty, famine and starvation up close on mission trips. I don't have to imagine a post oil world...I just need to remember what I have already witnessed.

[Luningning]

The issues surrounding recent discussions on US offshore drilling for oil has significant impact for all Americans where Obama and McCain talk about in http://pollclash.com . The soaring oil prices are affecting the costs of everything from food to gas. There are also significant issues on local and global environmental impact. While there are many issues, we need to look at our next leader and determine which will have the best course of action going forward. Here's where your vote and voice can count. Watch the two video clips below submit your vote. Also, leave a comment if there is more you wish to say or an issue you think should be raised within the context of this clash.

[MonteQuest]

We have no choice.

We could try living within limits.

That's a rather novel concept.

[Peleg]

You know,...I hate to say this but I think we out to give them what they want. They want to drill everywhere and anywhere, have at it!

Really I mean it. If it is such a great find and will make such a difference to the future of our country, then by all means get on it right a way.