[Ludi]

I'm not sure what point VMarcHart and mos are trying to make, or what they want Monte to do.

Monte, do you know what they want you to do?


Sorry, I'm just confused....

There seems to be some kind of argument here, but I'm not sure what it is....

[mos6507]

Since you were able to do something about it (late 80s, I'm guessing) did you do anything about it?

How many people knew about peak oil in the late 80s? If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I probably would have. This retroactive blame game is pointless.

[MonteQuest]

Monte, do you know what they want you to do?

Believe in a techno-fix. The idea of limits seems to evade them.

[VMarcHart]

Monte, do you know what they want you to do?

Believe in a techno-fix. The idea of limits seems to evade them.

FYI, I'm very bearish on any techno-fix. I'd love to see one, but I doubt it will be in my time. I think there's a limit for everything, including how many living organisms can exist on the planet at a single time. (I think we agree on that.) However, I'm a believer we don't know everything there's to know about everything, even the most tried and observed simple laws of biology. It seems you do. Good for you. A bit arrogant, but it takes all colors to make a rainbow.

[Dezakin]

Monte, do you know what they want you to do?

Believe in a techno-fix. The idea of limits seems to evade them.

Hardly. Limits are simply higher. You cant have 10^27 humans if you need 1 watt to run on from a sun that produces 10^26 watts.

[MrBean]

You and Monte need to get a room! Monte is not fighting, and if he were, it wouldn't be for you. Monte is on his own, absorbed by the selected books he reads, an incredible memory to recite those books, and an unique gift to explain in lame's terms. If you've read all 47 pages, you must have read Monte stating 1,000 times die-off is inevitable and there's nothing you can do; you're doomed. LOL!

Much easier to attack me than refute the facts, isn't it?

Factual "objective" science states that, numerically, evolution is not about "survival" but about failure. 99,99999% or genes don't continue.

Factual "objective" science excludes experience from nature, because it just does not fit the picture.

Factrual objective science is neither true to objective facts nor to empirical experience, it's just a myth.

[MrBean]

Humans are capable of placing limits on themselves.

Too late for that.

That is just plain utterly stupid. Even if "too late" (by what meter?) so what? Better to start "too late" than never.

Monte, you are utterly stupid and no denying that.

[MonteQuest]

However, I'm a believer we don't know everything there's to know about everything, even the most tried and observed simple laws of biology. It seems you do. Good for you. A bit arrogant, but it takes all colors to make a rainbow.

Guess you are willing to bet your life on it, eh?

Anomalous info just makes you dismiss known science?

A bit ignorant, but it takes all colors to make a rainbow.

[MonteQuest]

That is just plain utterly stupid. Even if "too late" (by what meter?) so what? Better to start "too late" than never.

By what meter? By 50 to 75 years as I stated. Birth control measures are too late, by any stretch of the imagaination.

[MonteQuest]

Better to start "too late" than never.

So, the people who drowned on the Titanic should have continued to bail?

[MrBean]

That is just plain utterly stupid. Even if "too late" (by what meter?) so what? Better to start "too late" than never.

By what meter? By 50 to 75 years as I stated. Birth control measures are too late, by any stretch of the imagaination.

By the meter of forgettin meter and starting to live. So your civilization with all her calculations is about to die. Good riddens and won't be missed.

Go away and leave us in peace.

[Ludi]

Humans are capable of placing limits on themselves.

Too late for that.

That is just plain utterly stupid. Even if "too late" (by what meter?) so what? Better to start "too late" than never.

Monte, you are utterly stupid and no denying that.

I think you guys are talking past each other again. I think Monte is saying it is too late to avert die-off by putting limits on ourselves, but I don't think he's saying it's too late to derive any benefit from putting limits on ourselves. His powerdown plan is all about putting limits on ourselves, as I recall.

[MonteQuest]

I think Monte is saying it is too late to avert die-off by putting limits on ourselves, but I don't think he's saying it's too late to derive any benefit from putting limits on ourselves. His powerdown plan is all about putting limits on ourselves, as I recall.

I was responding to mos6507's suggestion of using rubbers and addressing birth control.

Too late for that to make any difference in time. We don't have decades to start the population downsize.

Why? Population demographics. Google it, folks.

[mos6507]

So, the people who drowned on the Titanic should have continued to bail?

Were there not survivors? Abandoning hope will assure you won't be one of them.

[MonteQuest]

So, the people who drowned on the Titanic should have continued to bail?

Were there not survivors? Abandoning hope will assure you won't be one of them.

Not amongst those that drowned.

You miss the point entirely. You don't try to feed hay to a dead horse.

Our hope lies in abandoning cargoism.

[TonyPrep]

Since you were able to do something about it (late 80s, I'm guessing) did you do anything about it?

How many people knew about peak oil in the late 80s? If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I probably would have. This retroactive blame game is pointless.

I agree, it's just that you appeared to be criticizing Monte for saying "we" made our bed and we must lie in it. You seemed to be excluding yourself from the "we". I was just checking that you weren't excluded.

[VMarcHart]

However, I'm a believer we don't know everything there's to know about everything, even the most tried and observed simple laws of biology. It seems you do. Good for you. A bit arrogant, but it takes all colors to make a rainbow.

Guess you are willing to bet your life on it, eh?

You, me, and everybody who wakes up the next day bet with our lives and win it. Not bad odds.

[VMarcHart]

Our hope lies in abandoning cargoism.

No cynicism here, Monte, it's really nice to see you acknowledging there is hope. Thanks. I'd like to add that abandoning cargoism might be one of the solutions. We do not know everything.

[mos6507]

You miss the point entirely. You don't try to feed hay to a dead horse.

Our hope lies in abandoning cargoism.

Maybe if you would lay off of the figures of speech and slogans and just communicate plainly it would come across better.