[idiom]

Could a replacement currency/system, be electronic only?

In New Zealand you can live easily without using cash at all. Nearly everything is EFT based, the last thing to go was parking meters, but you pay by txt from your cell phone now.

It would mean strict control of circulation and currency levels not available with current physical currency.

It stops people hoarding, keeps the banking system in your life and give the black market real headaches.

Thoughts?

[shortonoil]

idiom said:

Could a replacement currency/system, be electronic only?

I’m sure the the NWO will approve that idea!

That is just replacing a failed system with a system that will probably be less reliable than the one we have. Even though solar activity is very low at the present, that doesn’t mean it will stay that way. One good X class solar hit on earth, and poof - there goes half the planets communications.

So that’s probably what they will do?

[shady28]

China starts imploding - boasting $

Beijing swells dollar reserves through stealth "During the first half of this year, about 67,000 small and medium-sized companies went bankrupt throughout China, leaving more than 20m people out of work," said the National Development and Reform Commission. "Bankruptcies of textile and spinning companies have numbered more than 10,000. Two thirds are on the brink of bankruptcy."

Telegraph


China is hitting the energy wall! It will become know as the largest mis-allocation of resources in the history of civilization. China’s gargantuan growth was based on a Ponzi scheme of unprecedented magnitude. Once China quits growing, it collapses. Once China collapses the insolvent Western economies will soon follow!

A vast supply of dollars, that will need repatriating, will flood back into a US economy hamstrung with a broken credit market. Those dollars will be demanding resources that we do not have!

I think you're wrong there and twisting what this means.

Not too long ago, many on peakoil were talking about how China, India, etc would keep on growing and jacking the price of oil up.

Now, we see that process unwinding. They are not going to continue to grow at past rates. They probably will shrink, as more businesses go bankrupt and demand for thir goods begins to fall.

As far as the Chinese spending their money in the USA - at this stage of the game that would be something we should want. If they start dumping hundreds of billions into our economy, it will kick start investment and expansion.

But, that is what the Fed has been doing isn't it? The Fed and ECB have been attempting to inject liquidity into the markets and kick start the economy again. They have been failing - and failing badly. Despite billions injected by purchasing worthless paper (junk bonds, MBAs, etc) M3 has begun to decline. The damage being done by the credit crisis is outpacing the Fed.

Cash is getting tight all over. It's getting harder to come by. Think supply and demand. More people are beginning to see the writing on the wall - see quote below. This guy is wrong about one thing though - it's not going to wait until late 2009.



"At the same time we have seen falling asset prices – both shares and property. This phenomenon is normally associated with periods of deflation, for example the 1930s in the US and Japan’s lost decade.

"Finally, the credit crunch will result in less money in circulation. Capital Economics published a report suggesting the amount of cash held on deposit by companies is falling rapidly.

"For all the above reasons, it seems that by the tail end of 2009, deflation, rather than inflation, will become the key concern of economists."



http://ftadviser.com/FinancialAdviser/P ... o-come.jsp

[shortonoil]

shady28 said:

Not too long ago, many on peakoil were talking about how China, India, etc would keep on growing and jacking the price of oil up.

Well, that wasn’t me. I have never believed that Asia would continue on its stellar growth path. One reason is that the Available Energy model says that it can’t. The other is in the post above, China and India are already coming apart at the seams.

Beijing swells dollar reserves through stealth
"During the first half of this year, about 67,000 small and medium-sized companies went bankrupt throughout China, leaving more than 20m people out of work," said the National Development and Reform Commission. "Bankruptcies of textile and spinning companies have numbered more than 10,000. Two thirds are on the brink of bankruptcy."

Telegraph

Asia has hit an energy wall. As a result we are seeing collapsing economies in India, Pakistan, China and South East Asia. The price of oil will continue upward until the world’s economy is contracting at the same rate that the Available Energy supply is declining. That should be in the area of $175. Other factors that are non-determinable will likely play into this, but $175 will be the top.

Now, we see that process unwinding. They are not going to continue to grow at past rates. They probably will shrink, as more businesses go bankrupt and demand for thir goods begins to fall.

They are not just unwinding they are unraveling. China, in particular, is a huge ponzi scheme based on massive foreign capital injection. China is not interested and hasn’t been interested in economic growth, they are interested in job creation for their teaming millions. As a result of this a company in China does not have to make a profit to stay in business, they are government (BOC) funded as long as they employee people. They are feed the necessary capital to keep the masses working.

Because of this the entire Chinese system is prepped for collapse. 40% of its bank loans outstanding are non-preforming.

As far as the Chinese spending their money in the USA - at this stage of the game that would be something we should want. If they start dumping hundreds of billions into our economy, it will kick start investment and expansion.

The Chinese will not be spending their money on US investments. They will be spending their money on commodities, mostly food. One side effect of the Chinese miracle is that it can no longer grow enough food to feed its population. Its best production farm land was plowed under to make way for new factories. Its water supply has been contaminated by industrial run off until it is no longer usable. 70% of China’s subsurface and 60% of its ground water is no longer potable.

When China arrives with its $1.8 trillion in US dollars they will be here to buy corn, wheat and anything eatable. However, the US doesn’t have the capacity to feed China, our grain stocks are the lowest in history. When a box of Cheerios hits $16, the US will close its borders!



{shady28 - if you use the link command it doesn't spread the text across two pages}

[ROCKMAN]

Just a little add on to your interesting post shorty. A few years ago I ran into a fellow who was teaching basic free market business economy to a group of Chinese managers. He said the most difficult hurdle was to get them to believe that profit was a critical part of the process. Time and again, he said, they kept asking the same question: if it cost $1 to make a product how can you "justify" selling it for more than a dollar.

And it is so true about the demand for new jobs. I was in China in 2000 and it was amazing to go into a large department store and see one sales girl for every 30 sq ft or so of isle space. I’m not exaggerating. You really couldn’t find a spot to stand where there wasn’t at least one employee more than 5’ from you. I think any unemployment figures from China can misleading. Just a wild guess but I would say they have at least 3X as many folks employed commercially as they really need. Conversely, their economy could grow 300% and they would have a ready and very willing workforce.

[shortonoil]

ROCKMAN said:

A few years ago I ran into a fellow who was teaching basic free market business economy to a group of Chinese managers. He said the most difficult hurdle was to get them to believe that profit was a critical part of the process. Time and again, he said, they kept asking the same question: if it cost $1 to make a product how can you "justify" selling it for more than a dollar.

Thanks ROCK. It is a very peculiar culture. Individually they are the most penurious people on earth. The bane of the War Lord was what the Chinese called “squeeze”; the ability to steal enough absolutely worthless articles that it eventually bankrupted the masters.

On the other hand, running their corporations at a profit is definitely not their primary motivation. Perhaps they view the big corporation as the surrogate War Lord.

[ROCKMAN]

That's an interesting way of viewing it shorty. Though my experiences there were limited (was there adopting my little girl) they definitely do have a different view of "success". It might well be a throw back to those War Lord days. I definitely got the idea that success was measured by beating the other guy at the game and not how much money you won. Many mornings I watch very tenacious battles where winning was everything. And this was BADMITTON games. From 6 years of age to 80 they put all they had into the game. I could sense just as much machismo as you would find at an NFL game.

[shortonoil]

ROCKMAN said:

That's an interesting way of viewing it shorty. Though my experiences there were limited (was there adopting my little girl) they definitely do have a different view of "success". It might well be a throw back to those War Lord days. I definitely got the idea that success was measured by beating the other guy at the game and not how much money you won. Many mornings I watch very tenacious battles where winning was everything. And this was BADMITTON games. From 6 years of age to 80 they put all they had into the game. I could sense just as much machismo as you would find at an NFL game.

Yes, a very interesting culture, and what can we criticize about them? They have been incredibly inventive for centuries, and they have a culture that dates back 3000 years! In 3000 years the only thing that the US will be is an archeological dig!

As to giving your wife a 20 gauge to hunt turkeys, please give the poor woman something to work with. A 12 with double-O buck is about the minimum. I’ve shot them with a 16 in the chest at point blank range, and got nothing but feathers for it. They are tough, and sooo good!

Better yet a 22-250 and twenty power scope. Shoot their heads off. You don’t have to chase them as far.

[ROCKMAN]

Actually shorty, the 20 guage is for my little China doll....all 4' and 62 pounds of her. We're divorced now so she lives out in the country with my ex. Cutest thing: those almond eyes with a S TX twang. The plan is to take her on her first turkey hunt next spring.

I agree about the Chinese. I was there just a short while but had lots of time to wonder around that small industrial town. They can take an empty can and a few pieces of string and make a laptop computer. When/if the gov't allows to power to shift downwards they will be unbeatable. I've been around some very poor areas in the world but none with the capacity for growth like I saw there. All they need is a lot of freedom and a little capital. I like to imagine the spirit I saw there was what we had here at the beginning of the industrial revolution in the early 1900's.

[Snowrunner]

Thoughts?

It could, but I think that would be a bad idea. Part of the problem we are having today already is that people have no relation to money, because it's just "numbers".

Personally what I found worked well for me for budgeting was to deal as much in cash as possible, when you see these little paper notes and coins change hand you realize quickly how much money you spend.

Everytime I don't do this I end up spending way more money then when using cash.

Also: How would you guarantee that someone just adds some zeroes here or there in a database table? (The Cynic in me thinks that's already happening).

[idiom]

Oddly, I have it the other way around. I have much less discipline with cash, because it is just play money to me.

Just keeping things like Revelation 13 in mind:

[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Just being freaky :D

[shortonoil]

Snowrunner said:

It could, but I think that would be a bad idea. Part of the problem we are having today already is that people have no relation to money, because it's just "numbers".

There is no doubt that the digital monetary system is as flawed a system as the oil based monetary system. They will both find some place in a history book of economics. Both are founded on the concept that perpetual grow is possible and desirable. Both espouse the wonders of a psychopathic consumer economy. They will both wind up on the trash heap of civilization!