[StuckInPhilly]

Planned? No.

Human beings are hard wired to see a reason in things, that's why they invent gods and create conspiracy theories.

Sometimes there really are conspiracies but in this case pretty much the entire nation would need to be behind it. I don't know about the rest of you but I have not been informed of my role by the Illumnati.

[Carlhole]

Even Ron Paul insists that the reason we have this "Creature From Jekyll Island" called The Fed is because we need to amp our financial ability to support a gargantuan military industrial complex, 700 bases all over the world, frequent foreign wars and all that. Ron Paul emphasizes time and again that monetary policy enables foreign policy.

If we adopted the monetary and tax policies that Ron Paul recommends, he assures us that we would not be able to afford to engage in this kind of global meddling and manipulation.

So YES! This was planned. And not in any unusual and unique way. The deliberate manipulation of the economy is a programmed feature of the US economy.

I posted my perspective on another thread so I'll quote it here again. My perspective is like the Mike Ruppert view except that Ruppert is a "10" on the Doomerosity Scale whereas I'm more like a "6.5".

The present financial disaster was caused by (1) the easy money policy of the Fed, (2) the lax regulations in the FNMA and FDMC that approved masses of people for mortgages who were poor credit risks (3) the creation of derivative products by Wall Street which were designed to spread the credit risk all over the world.

However, there is a bigger picture here that I don't exactly have economically clear in my own mind. But maybe someone else does. It has to do with the larger financial imbalances that have existed in the world for quite some time. Notably, the (1) offshoring of US manufacturing and other jobs to China and other emerging markets, (2) the funding of the US government by China and other foreigners, (3) the prosecution of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think the Bush Administration arrived in office after the collapse of the internet bubble and a recent hike in the price of oil. They wanted to prosecute a war in Iraq in order to establish a permanent American presence in the last best cheap oil region left on the planet. Cheney had been making speeches about the difficulty of keeping oil production steady, much less grow it. Hawks such as the Neoconservatives saw an invasion of Iraq and the capture of Central Asain resources as a way to avoid the US becoming a second-rate nation in the 21st century.

But since the US economy was no longer financially capable of funding the war (due to the loss of US manufacturing jobs and the weak economy), the American powers-that-be (which would naturally include the Bush Administration) chose to create a housing boom/bubble, which would place the economy on steroids but would have a significant downside when it finally burst. I think the econo-strategists advising Cheney probably told him that the bubble would take most of the Bush's two terms to play out.

The relatively short-lived turbo-charging of the US economy allowed China to sell huge amounts of good to Americans, who financed their purchases using the oft-mentioned "mortgage ATM"). And thus, the US could finance the wars abroad by borrowing from China - at least for a while.

It seems to me that this was a huge crap shoot that the US engaged in. Did it pay off?

When I look at the results of this mess, I see that China and the US are financial partners who are in this thing together. China owns massive amounts of US debt. I keep predicting a Global Energy Summit in which China and the US will play the predominant roles.

In this Global Energy Summit, there will be some sort of agreement made about how future development will progress, taking into consideration peak oil and its dire ramifications. There will be global, coordinated energy technology R&D and production sharing agreements. There will be a continued leveling of the Chinese and American standards of living (of course, with Americans having to face up to very diminished circumstances). The price of crude will move higher, boosting worldwide efforts to conserve and become more efficient.

This is just a quick sketch but it seems to be a reasonably clear picture of what is happening. You certainly won't see this sort of perspective on CNN.

And anyone who has read my posts here in the past knows that I am very suspicious of the events of 911. They seem to have had their role to play as well in this unfolding global drama.

Again, it seems to me that this was a huge crap shoot that the US engaged in. Maybe the proper question to ask is not "Did it pay off?" but "Will it pay off?".

[Pops]

So YES! This was planned.

OK so what is your plan from here?

[Roccland]

The market collapse isn't manufactured lto "mask" peak oil. It IS peak oil. And the fact that it arrives at exactly the same time as peak production need not have been planned to have been necessary, in fact it is mathematically necessary.

You will find no where in any of my postings that I said economic collapse would mask PO.

What you will find is I have said repeatedly...

Wait for it... PO will be defined by economic collapse.

I suggest you repost your last post with this perspective in mind. There is no sense intellectually jousting with someone who has entirely missed the point.

[alokin]

It's maybe about how such things can be planned anyway. Their plans are not better than ours, well they have more information. Maybe it's like this: they plan a thing look how it works out and then adapt. And then surely there are different plans or conspiracies running at the same time.

But at the end I think there are conspiracies as 9/11 showed clearly. This event was simply to big to be planned by an old beardy man in a cave with a notebook. This plan worked out pretty well and the plotters might have been encouraged.

[eastbay]

The conspiracy theory reasoning is almost always way to complicated to execute successfully.

Not really...
1) create a new pearl harbor - check

2) drops interest rates to 1% - check

3) loan money to those who can't pay and give them 3-5 years to prove it - check (ARMs were typically 3-5 year fuzes).

4) leverage this bad debt 80:1 check

Here's the kicker and my thesis...this collapse was set to occur precisley when PO hit. See PO was to usher in economic collapse anyway.

If you are king of the word...you would do this on your terms. And "they" have.

5) Start a series of really stupid oil wars. Get everyone to support them. Check

[davep]

If the US Govt is full of big oil and investment banking bigwigs, I don't see why they wouldn't have planned it. If a few interweb loons can work out what was going to happen three or four years in advance, it wouldn't take much for the combination of knowledge of peak oil and knowledge of the debt/leverage possibilities to be manipulated for this to occur at the right time. I'd certainly do it if I were in their shoes.

...an unprecedented move by President George W. Bush to give the National Director of Intelligence, John Negroponte, the authority to exempt "certain" Wall Street firms and banking giants from reporting their financial records to the Securities and Exchange Commission

This seems to have been the requisite manipulation (excuse my ignorance of internal US affairs if this is common knowledge).

But we may never know for sure, such is the nature of these things.

[Carlhole]

So YES! This was planned.

OK so what is your plan from here?

In a nutshell, I would want Barack Obama to get behind a Global Energy Summit that recognizes the energy problem, sets policy goals and coordinates R&D and production of a whole array of alternative energies and nuclear.

The Global Energy Summit would also view Iraq's reserves of 200 - 500 billion barrels as the last huge deposit of cheap, easy energy left on the planet. The Summit would view Iraq's oil as the critical reserves necessary to transform or build-out infrastructures in sensible, energy efficient ways.

I see the cooperation of China and the US as the key relationship that will enable societies to avoid the worst scenarios that peak oil presents. This would require substantive global agreements and continuing global cooperative efforts to deal with the problem.

At home, here in the US, we are looking at a prolonged recession of at least 2-3 years. Virtually all economists are saying we are charting new territory; no one knows what lies ahead. So, it's quite likely that we will probably see some hard times and the necessity of some sort of national works projects. I'd make energy, rail and light rail and other sensible infrastructure development a top-priority. I'd build-out the electrical grid and communications grid. I'd build 10 nuclear plants every decade for the next 5 decades. I'd promote the fast deployment of solar technologies for home electric and heating especially...

I suppose market forces take care of alot of this - as long as oil prices stay high. But policy and clear goals are an important adjunct to the market. People need to be aware of the consequences of inaction and the importance of relenting on nuclear NIMBY and things like that.

[paimei01]

Yes

[CrudeAwakening]

If it was planned, it would seem that the spirit inherent within the Bankers Manifestos of 1892 and 1934 still abides within the upper echelons of finance:

We (the bankers) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are already showing signs of restless commotion. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance.
Organizations in the United States should be carefully watched by our trusted men, and we must take immediate steps to control these organizations in our interest or disrupt them.
At the coming Omaha convention to be held July 4, 1892, our men must attend and direct its movement or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome.
This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination (conspiracy) and legislation.
The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When, through the process of law, the common people have lost their homes,
they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm
of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers.
People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.
The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.
By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete actions, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished.

Link

[TheDude]

The Global Energy Summit would also view Iraq's reserves of 200 - 500 billion barrels as the last huge deposit of cheap, easy energy left on the planet.

You're getting on my nerves repeating these dubious Iraq reserves figures as gospel. If you really believe those reserves are genuine you may as well consider those for other producing nations as equally genuine, in which case I don't see why you'd continue to post here, since this would give a peak date of 2050 or the like.
I've pointed out that for all of Iraq's supposed riches the actual production increases coming out of there are quite modest. Chalk that up to geopolitical reasons if you want. Where's the Shaybah class fields cranking out 1.5 mb/d? Instead we get dinky new finds like Tawke and infill drilling.

[CarlosFerreira]

If the US Govt is full of big oil and investment banking bigwigs, I don't see why they wouldn't have planned it. If a few interweb loons can work out what was going to happen three or four years in advance, it wouldn't take much for the combination of knowledge of peak oil and knowledge of the debt/leverage possibilities to be manipulated for this to occur at the right time. I'd certainly do it if I were in their shoes.

I believe they've known of the problems looming for some time, but couldn't stop it. No President wants to rule over a country in recession, no-one wants to be there, and money (even if it was ficticious, "Monopoly notes") money was needed to finance, well, everything. Macroeconomics is not really my camp, but it makes sense to think that they knew the bubble would bust, but couldn't really grind the economy to a halt for fear of being effectively ejected from power. Try telling people they can't have this and that (essentially curbing their "freedom") and they'll kick you out of the office.

People don't want to suffer scarcity - although we all know scarcity is what economics is all about. Freedom has long been defined as the freedom to have, not the freedom to be.

[StuckInPhilly]

If it was planned, it would seem that the spirit inherent within the Bankers Manifestos of 1892 and 1934 still abides within the upper echelons of finance:

Does this document come from somewhere other than the internet?
I only find it repeated at various conspiracies websites.

[aflurry]

The market collapse isn't manufactured lto "mask" peak oil. It IS peak oil. And the fact that it arrives at exactly the same time as peak production need not have been planned to have been necessary, in fact it is mathematically necessary.

You will find no where in any of my postings that I said economic collapse would mask PO. What you will find is I have said repeatedly... Wait for it... PO will be defined by economic collapse. I suggest you repost your last post with this perspective in mind. There is no sense intellectually jousting with someone who has entirely missed the point.

easy man, i wasn't challenging you to a duel. the comment about economic collapse "masking" PO, was in response to the OP, who suggested the idea. first post, this thread.

i like your shit. even though i may not have studied the full cannon. i just used your bulletpoints a jumping off point for a rant about how i think framing this thing as some shadowy planned event prematurely takes our own profligate asses off the hook.

It was a response to the question posed by the OP. Sorry if it seemed like a challenge. But there's no way i'm reposting anything. Too lazy.

[aflurry]

If we adopted the monetary and tax policies that Ron Paul recommends, he assures us that we would not be able to afford to engage in this kind of global meddling and manipulation.

the reason i don't trust RP is that he wants to starve the government but does not put much effort into which programs get the cut. he wants to start his efforts with abolishing income tax, which at least has the virtue of having the possibility of progressive scaling, unlike, say sales tax, etc.

he was responsible for the tax cut for the wealthiest people at the beginning of reagan's term, but abandoned ship when reagan couldn't cut programs and had to start the debt cycle that became what we are seeing falling around our ears today.

shoddy workmanship, RP. stick it through or shut the hell up.

[sameu]

It is no coincindence, that's for sure

when you think about it, it's very simple

oil = economic growth = creating money /credit

peak oil = peak money/credit

[Armageddon]

This looming crash is going to happen on Obama's watch, and early on his watch. As Rupport's blog said, " blame the black man ". And yes, it was all planned.

[CrudeAwakening]

Does this document come from somewhere other than the internet?
I only find it repeated at various conspiracies websites.

It reportedly comes from the Civil Servants’ Year Book, "The Organizer," Jan. 1934, courtesy of Charles Lindbergh. I don't have access to an original copy, so am relying on others to vouch for its credibility.

[grassland]

We need to let the Federal reserve go bankrupt, then the government can print their own money.

The Federal reserve DID NOT WORK! pass it on.

[Armageddon]

We need to let the Federal reserve go bankrupt, then the government can print their own money. The Federal reserve DID NOT WORK! pass it on.

It worked exactly as they planned. They are wealthy, we are poor and in debt.