[frankthetank]

Doyle thinks that Obama is going to throw more money at Wisconsin because he was one of the early guys to back him (IOWA)... My guess is that ISN'T going to happen

The federal government, with Wall Street help should take over all these pension funds and divide them among executives and CEO's to help fund purchases of yachts and prostitutes

[lowem]

Taxpayer bailout.

That would be a loop, taxpayers bailout taxpayers with taxpayer money. Figure in government overhead and soon enough you have nothing left in the system. Wait a minute, aren't you guys there already?

I assume Ben keps his post, since if I recall right, only the Treasury Secretary is really part of the government, not the Fed Chairman. Bring on the helicopters.

[retiredguy]

If the market continues to tank for the next five years, life as we know it will be truly over. Not just for WRS annuitants.

[frankthetank]

You got that right.

I'm starting to think the "joe the plumber" moment with Obama may have a lot of truth to it. Spreading the wealth is coming if you like it or not. Those that have saved are going to get kicked in the balls because its going to be time to share with those that haven't.

[Serial_Worrier]

In a Mad Max world, there won't be any pensions....

[cube]

If the market continues to tank for the next [s]five [/s] two years, life as we know it will be truly over...

There fixed that for you.
The stock market is moving down at a rate of 30% per year.
At that rate 2 more years and it will hit rock bottom....it can't go any lower then that if you know what I mean.

[VMarcHart]

Those who saved are going to get kicked in the balls because it's going to be time to share with those who haven't.

It's a known fact that baby-boomer have saved very little or nothing at all. Some paid their homes off and can do a reverse mortgage, some had 401k's and IRAs, but most simply imagined social security would be there and sufficient.

I'm an early Gen-X with at least another 25 years before retirement. I have and continue to save. I also live below my means. I'm not opposed to a redistribution of wealth, but to bailout those who had a life-time to save, it's not exactly what I had in mind. Make my 25 years to retirement more like 35.

I'd be the first to support a moderate state pension paycuts.

[vision-master]

Those who saved are going to get kicked in the balls because it's going to be time to share with those who haven't.

It's a known fact that baby-boomer have saved very little or nothing at all. Some paid their homes off and can do a reverse mortgage, some had 401k's and IRAs, but most simply imagined social security would be there and sufficient.

I'm an early Gen-X with at least another 25 years before retirement. I have and continue to save. I also live below my means. I'm not opposed to a redistribution of wealth, but to bailout those who had a life-time to save, it's not exactly what I had in mind. Make my 25 years to retirement more like 35.

I'd be the first to support a moderate state pension paycuts.

Your parents gave you the good life and now you want to cut em off at the knees?

[VMarcHart]

Your parents gave you the good life and now you want to cut em off at the knees?

My parents, like yours, you, me and every adult, should've been responsible. That said:

1. "cut them off at the knees" is pure silly drama;
2. If our parents had us as social security safety, it's immoral;
3. My parents don't earn a state pension;
4. Thanks for the thoughts of a good life, but no they didn't.

If I'm going to learn to share my wealth and live with less, so should all pensioners.

[vision-master]

Your parents gave you the good life and now you want to cut em off at the knees?

My parents, like yours, you, me and every adult, should've been responsible. That said:
1. "cut them off at the knees" is pure silly drama;
2. If our parents had us as social security safety, it's immoral;
3. My parents don't earn a state pension;
4. Thanks for the thoughts of a good life, but no they didn't.
If I'm going to learn to share my wealth and live with less, so should all pensioners.

You despise your elders.

Grammy and Grandpa had a hard life. I wish hardship on know one. They had a bunch of kids during the great depression. Before any entilement programs. One of my Moms sisters got rickets from malnutrition. Hot water was put on corn flakes. Funiture was burned to keep warm. fuel was coal picked up off the railroad tracks. Kids slept on the floor. Shoes had a new piece of cardboard placed in them everyday. You either walked or took the street car. There was no lunch program at school. There was no work....

[VMarcHart]

You despise your elders.

Not a bit! My elders lived their lives and I have mine to live. I'm very thankful for them, and I'm here to help them, but not to sacrifice my life financing boomers' golden years.

[vision-master]

You despise your elders.

Not a bit! My elders lived their lives and I have mine to live. I'm very thankful for them, and I'm here to help them, but not to sacrifice my life financing boomers' golden years.

Sorry, but yes you are. Get over it. It's a done deal.

[frankthetank]

From local paper: Not much of a change... $500 less a YEAR...

The ill winds on Wall Street have swept away more than one-quarter of the value of the state's core pension fund this year, putting it on track for a possible $500 drop in average yearly payments to 150,000 retirees, state officials said Thursday.

The possible drop in payments to pensioners, which won't be decided until year-end market figures are known, would be the first drop in the 26-year history of the state retirement system.
"This is unprecedented (for) retirees," said Matt Stohr, a spokesman for the state Department of Employee Trust Funds. But, "it's safe to say that they should be prepared for a negative dividend."

Stohr stressed that the pension funds remain solvent and will be able to make benefits payments.

But troubled markets have dealt the state's Core Trust Fund investment losses of 26 percent for the year as of Oct. 31, vaporizing $22.46 billion of the fund's value on paper and leaving it at $58.28 billion, said Vicki Hearing, spokeswoman for the state Investment Board.

By comparison, the S&P 500 index, a standard used to track the performance of the overall stock market, is down 32.8 percent over the same period, Hearing said.

What will happen next for retirees depends on what course the volatile markets take between now and Dec. 31, Stohr said.

If by then the market is down as much as it is now, pensioners' annuity payments could decrease by a rough estimate of 2.3 percent starting May 1, Stohr said. Any possible decrease could be less or more than that depending on what happens in the stock market, he said.

The average yearly payment to state pensioners was $21,500 in 2007, the latest year available, and payments increased 6.6 percent in 2008, he said.

Since the creation of the current state retirement system in 1982 to cover state and many local government workers, the worst news pensioners have faced is a freeze on their payments in 2002 because of the bear market then.

The problems with the fund could also mean a hit to both taxpayers and the larger group of 265,000 current public employees who are part of the system.

Stohr said that if current Wall Street trends for the year hold, governments could have to raise the contribution rate for their employees in the fund from 10.4 percent of their salaries to 10.9 percent. That half a percentage point increase could come from the employers, the workers, or both, depending on what state and local officials decide, Stohr said.

Ed Huck, executive director of the Wisconsin Alliance of Cities, said an increase in local governments' contribution rates could have a real impact on their budgets.

"We're all going to have to sacrifice," Huck said. "We're just going to have to find places not to spend money."

Peter Monkmeyer, a retired UW-Madison engineering professor, praised the fund's management and said potential payment decreases reflect the risk shared by retirees involved in the system.

"A 2.3 percent loss, if indeed it becomes necessary, is very small indeed and seems small compared to friends of mine who have lost their jobs recently," Monkmeyer said. "We're not taking the kind of hits that people are with their 401(k)s.

[frankthetank]

Reading this again shows that there are 540,000 participants, and with only 150,000 of those being retirees.

I think their fund is pretty safe...

If they start raising taxes to fund these people, i'll start stealing money from my brother when he starts withdrawing from this fund...get my money back!

[retiredguy]

One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution

Never thought I would live long enough to see that old Airplane song become relevant again.

[vision-master]

One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Never thought I would live long enough to see that old Airplane song become relevant again.

Volunteers

[RonMN]

VM Wrote:
My elders lived their lives and I have mine to live. I'm very thankful for them, and I'm here to help them, but not to sacrifice my life financing boomers' golden years.

Funny thing is, the "elders" are the ones who know how to make it thru tough times...I'd trade a dozen 19 year olds for the knowledge of 1 elder. It wont be "sacrificing you life" if the elders keep you alive with their knowledge. Even if it seems odd to spend your money on prep's during the good times, in order to survive the bad times.

[Serial_Worrier]

I'll be damned if I have to share one cent of my savings with any irresponsible parasites. I already gave in the form of my FICA and income tax. They can screw themselves, and if they try to go after my savings, then Civil War 2.0 is on baby.

[ReverseEngineer]

One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Never thought I would live long enough to see that old Airplane song become relevant again.

You want relevant Airplane, here is the one I would go with these days. Apply the Wisdom herein to the Stock Market. I made a little change from "Alice" to "SmallPox"

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all

Go ask SmallPox
When shes ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know your going to fall

Tell them the hookah-Smoking caterpillar
has given you the call
Call SmallPox when she was just small

When the men on the chess board get up and tell you where to go
And you just have some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving slow
Go ask SmallPox
I think she'll know

When logic and proportion
Have fallen four feet
And the white knight's talking backwards
And the Red Queen Says off with her head
Remember what the dormouse said

Feed your head
Feed your head

Reverse Engineer

[vision-master]

Grace Slick............