yesplease wrote:Ferretlover wrote:MonteQuest wrote:The true costs of cheap oil and the consequences of its’ use, have historically always been externalized — our military presence in the Middle East to ensure the flow of oil; environmental damage such as global climate change; the declining health of all living things – have never been paid by consumers at the pump. They soon will be…
I agree. There aren't enough resources to pay the bills that humans have incurred.
I disagree. Pollution, health issues, traffvck, etc... Are all costs people pay now and have paid for decades if not centuries, but they don't seem to care for the most part since they've become used to them. That said, now that we're putting pen to paper these costs are becoming less acceptable to some.
Sorry, no. Some examples:
CarlosFerreira wrote:What are we paying for when we buy a TV? We’re paying the marginal cost - the cost of materials used, capital and labour employed, packaging, shipping, marketing, the lot. But not the impact of the product in the world around us.
The materials used in the TV come, many of them, from non-renewable sources - metals, oil-based plastics. Are we paying for the depletion? The price of non-renewables is a complicated matter, and there’s something there called “shadow price”, supposedly accounting for depletion, but does it?
Are paying for the cost of small or large conflicts that arise for the control of these materials?
Also, are we paying the social costs? Teenagers in Africa have left school and foregone a better future to work on the mines extracting copper and other metals for our TV. Teenagers in Southeastern Asia have left school and foregone a better future to work on consumer goods’ factories. Are we paying for the overall cost society faces from losing these people’s potentially superior outputs if they stayed in school longer?
Do we pay for the environmental impact that production, shipping and using the TV has - for example, the GHG gases sent to the atmosphere and the impact they have on climate change, or the cost on reduced agricultural production due to toxic material released during mining?
Are we paying for the disposal, disassembly, recycling and transportation costs of the TV once we’re done with it? Are we paying for those parts that can’t be recycled and are lost for good?
The answer to these questions is the same: no, we are not paying for them. They are a cost to society as a whole that each and everyone of us does not pay when buying a product. They are an externality.
Externalities are causes of market failure.
Blog Link
If you paid for the full Climate Change cost related when you buy almost anything (remember the peak oilers prayer: oil touched everything in society nowadays), you would consume less. Externalities are paramount. When we pump the costs to society in the Marginal Costs of products, it will hurt, believe me. That's what carbon taxing/emissions trade want to do.
Also, I agree the spike in prices helped largely cause the financial crisis. Everything is connected, we're a system. If anyone would increase massively the cost of your inputs (food energy) without a mirroring increase in income, you'd be broke in no time.
Glad you're back, Monte! The overall level of the forum's just gone up a notch.