[Ludi]

Ok, I guess I thought the reason they would be hostile is because they have their own discrete culture and reject those who are different and from"outside", but, as I live in an area made up of many immigrants, as many parts of the US are, it's difficult for me to see how or why these areas would become hostile to each other.

But that's just me, perhaps! I don't see much hostility around me in daily life.

[RedStateGreen]

There have been several discussions of this on the forum already:

Why the feeling that the US will break up in the future?

Why America will break apart

Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US

Bridging the collapse gap -- how America will implode

Partition America

Just to list a few of the 71 threads that came up on a search here for "secession".

This might be better merged into one of those threads.

But I would think that (to answer your question) a few minutes thought about the racial and religious supremacists just on this site and the way the last US election campaign went might be useful, if you seriously don't believe there is hostility present in the US.

[Ludi]

if you seriously don't believe there is hostility present in the US.

I'm pretty sure I never said there is "no" hostility in the US, Just that I don't see it in my daily life. The various supremascists here on po.com are in the tiny minority.

But, what do I know, I'm a naive idiot!

[Nefarious]

Ok, I guess I thought the reason they would be hostile is because they have their own discrete culture and reject those who are different and from"outside", but, as I live in an area made up of many immigrants, as many parts of the US are, it's difficult for me to see how or why these areas would become hostile to each other.

But that's just me, perhaps! I don't see much hostility around me in daily life.

You also still live in a time of plenty.

[Ludi]

You also still live in a time of plenty.

That's true! It's quite possible most people will turn into assholes when times are tough.

[vaseline2008]

You also still live in a time of plenty.

That's true! It's quite possible most people will turn into assholes when times are tough.

Ah yes...the 1992 Los Angeles Riots are a pretty good example. Weren't we in a recession in '92? People just needed a good enough reason to go haywire. But as I recall the US Military came charging in declared Martial Martial Law and made the Coliseum the "jail".

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't civil unrest usually something that primarily occurs within the poor and hungry demographic? It sure seems that way when you look at all the pissed off people around the globe.

[Ludi]

Ah yes...the 1992 Los Angeles Riots are a pretty good example.

Except most people didn't participate in them. Only a small handful, relatively, of LA's enormous population took part in the riots. The riots were limited to a rather small area of that huge city.

There was a curfew for a few days, but not martial law. At least not that I can remember. Most folks just continued their normal routine and avoided the troubled parts of town.

[seahorse]

So, when the military think tank says what is happening in Zimbabwe could happen here, for a myriad of reasons, don't be so dismissive. It would behoove people to pay attention.

Why? If the US is going to turn into Zimbabwe, then it's a done deal, and you might as well forget about it. At that point, who cares? It's game over and there's no reason to care about anything anymore, at least if you're in America. Unless of course you're proposing some kind of solution. But you're not. You never talk about solutions. All you talk about is problems and defeat and despair, the more lurid the better. It's almost like you're trying to one-up yourself, or craving attention. You're getting to the point now where it's like nuclear war level doom. You've already hit "10" on the worst case scenario scale. Personally I don't give a crap about contingencies that bad. If the nuke is gonna drop, I might as well put on my sunglasses and sit outside in a lawnchair.

I'm also detecting a really strong racial undercurrent in your concerns. You're using all the appropriate code words, but it still comes through real strong.

JD,

After being enlisted, I became an officer. As a young officer, I worked for a year as a general's aid. During that time period, I learned one thing about being a general, bc the general always said it over and over. How could he possibly solve problems when people were scared to tell him what they were for fear of losing their jobs?

Why do I relay that story, bc of this comment from you:

Why? If the US is going to turn into Zimbabwe, then it's a done deal, and you might as well forget about it. At that point, who cares? It's game over and there's no reason to care about anything anymore, at least if you're in America.

First, the world has a serious financial crisis on its hands right now, admittedly now in a recession, but a little late on that admission. Even the President and Paulson have warned the world, the world, of a completely financial meltdown. So, If I'm warning, I'm warning in good company and my sources are good.

What is the outcome of all this? I've never said the Zimbabwe outcome is a done deal, have I. Further, the military strategest quoted doesn't say those problems are done deals either, only potential outcomes if the problems aren't recognized and solved. So, until we collectively recognize a problem it won't be solved, and then, only maybe. We've collectively recognized social security as a problem and failed to deal with it for years now.

Same is true now with currency issues and all the other problems mentioned in the article. Until people recognize the problem, the problem can't be solved. And, we have serious problems with trade and budget deficits right now that could lead to the many problems this article, and me, warn about. My goal here? To make sure that articles like this get as much needed attention as possible.

Unless of course you're proposing some kind of solution. But you're not. You never talk about solutions.

Again, recognition of a problem is the first step in any solution. Its kind of like getting an addict to admit the problem first, until that happens, no solution. Now, what part of all that do you disagree with?

Now, of all the problems seen in the article, which do you disagree with?

All you talk about is problems and defeat and despair, the more lurid the better.

Ignore problems? Is that what you propose? Should a nuclear plant ignore a flashing warning light? Further, I have posted numerous articles and suggestions on steps people should take to protect themselves. For example, get out of the stock market when it was still at about 13k, get out of debt, store some food, etc. What advice have you offered in this financial crisis that is a solution in ordinary people's lives?

You're getting to the point now where it's like nuclear war level doom.

You're guilty of hypebole here.

Personally I don't give a crap about contingencies that bad.

Talking about the recession, banking crisis, and housing crisis I have harped on for year is not talking about contingencies, it is talking about problems we are facing right now.

I'm also detecting a really strong racial undercurrent in your concerns. You're using all the appropriate code words, but it still comes through real strong.

Well, that says a lot. It is an ad hominem attack, but personal judgments based on their "spider sense" never work. You know why? Because there is no such thing. Judgments based on your "sense" of things are always personal judgments based on pesonal attacks. You are starting to sound very religious. You are simply displacing your own prejudices. They are not mine. Or, as seen from above, you do not know what you are talking about, which is far more likely. Problems cannot be ignored, and "houston, we have a problem in the US."

Now, JD, since I have you hear, after years of avoiding the question, will you please tell us why the US invaded Iraq?

[mos6507]

I don't see much hostility around me in daily life.

Although there is plenty here on peakoil.com

[NoahsDove]

In many ways, America already resembles a third world country. The Great Obama City of Chicago alone has a homicide rate of 500 or more per year, regularly outdistancing even NY City with far greater population. Considering the fact that all the major cities of US has inner city Black and Hispanic ghettos that would make a typical third world blush, It's a problem that this country is unlikely or unable to fix. What was the point of "sanctuary" status for Illegals? How stupid can a country get?

This inherent corruption is endemic, not much different than what goes on in Mexico. Mexico is not the only failed state.

[Ayoob]

In many ways, America already resembles a third world country. The Great Obama City of Chicago alone has a homicide rate of 500 or more per year, regularly outdistancing even NY City with far greater population. Considering the fact that all the major cities of US has inner city Black and Hispanic ghettos that would make a typical third world blush, It's a problem that this country is unlikely or unable to fix. What was the point of "sanctuary" status for Illegals? How stupid can a country get?

This inherent corruption is endemic, not much different than what goes on in Mexico. Mexico is not the only failed state.

People in third world nations would do anything to move on up to our ghettos. I don't think you know what the third world looks like. Are people fat in third world ghettos? Do they get checks from the government and subsidized housing with hot and cold running water and garbage pickup?

Some groups of people move into a neighborhood and fix it up. They paint their houses, fix the gutters, weed their lawns, keep their fences in good repair, engage in (possibly humble) hobbies, go for a walk in the neighborhood, go to work every day, etc. There are people in the hood that do that.

Others do other things.

But I don't live in or near the ghetto anymore. The closest ghetto to me is over 100 miles away as the crow flies. I'm out.

[eastbay]

But I don't live in or near the ghetto anymore. The closest ghetto to me is over 100 miles away as the crow flies. I'm out.

I thought you were in LA??

[Ayoob]

But I don't live in or near the ghetto anymore. The closest ghetto to me is over 100 miles away as the crow flies. I'm out.

I thought you were in LA??

Nope. No mas, cabron. I finished school and moved. Good money, job security many people would drool over right now, a nice safe neighborhood filled with the good people of America.

When the nature of peak oil finally wormed its way into my gut I threw my life in the trash and changed direction completely. Goodbye LA, hello... somewhere else!

That said, let's get this thread back on track. How does America become Zimbabwe? How did Zimbabwe become Zimbabwe?

[eastbay]

But I don't live in or near the ghetto anymore. The closest ghetto to me is over 100 miles away as the crow flies. I'm out.

I thought you were in LA??

Nope. No mas, cabron. I finished school and moved. Good money, job security many people would drool over right now, a nice safe neighborhood filled with the good people of America.
When the nature of peak oil finally wormed its way into my gut I threw my life in the trash and changed direction completely. Goodbye LA, hello... somewhere else!
That said, let's get this thread back on track. How does America become Zimbabwe? How did Zimbabwe become Zimbabwe?

Bueno idea e bueno suerte companero.

[Ludi]

I don't see much hostility around me in daily life.

Although there is plenty here on peakoil.com

Yes, that's true, but I have to admit I rarely get into political and philosophical discussions with people at the grocery store or the feed store.

[seahorse2]

Ayoob,

My very basic understanding of the Zimbabwe hyperinflation was they did what Germany did pre-WWII, they monetized their debt, basically, printed lots of money to pay off IMF loans. There were other political blunders, but hyperinflation is the direct result of a gov't monetizing the debt. The risk for the US is it has admittedly begun some monetization of the debt and Bernanke has stated, within the last few weeks, this is an option the US will use. The question is, can it be done without leading to hyperinflation? I've never read a convincing argument that one can monetize and not hyperinflate.

[mos6507]

Yes, that's true, but I have to admit I rarely get into political and philosophical discussions with people at the grocery store or the feed store.

Perhaps people should talk about such things more openly IRL rather than reserving it for the internet.

[eastbay]

Ayoob, My very basic understanding of the Zimbabwe hyperinflation was they did what Germany did pre-WWII, they monetized their debt, basically, printed lots of money to pay off IMF loans. There were other political blunders, but hyperinflation is the direct result of a gov't monetizing the debt. The risk for the US is it has admittedly begun some monetization of the debt and Bernanke has stated, within the last few weeks, this is an option the US will use. The question is, can it be done without leading to hyperinflation? I've never read a convincing argument that one can monetize and not hyperinflate.

Follow the large investments. We will see a trend toward non dollar investments developing immediately prior to the beginning of significant inflation. It shouldn't be too long from now.

[Ludi]

Perhaps people should talk about such things more openly IRL rather than reserving it for the internet.

So we'll be more hostile?

[eastbay]

Perhaps people should talk about such things more openly IRL rather than reserving it for the internet.

So we'll be more hostile?

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that. Why anyone would want to increase hostility and anger in open society is beyond me.