[timmac]

Here's a long article about Greenland before the mini ice age.

Glaciers and Greenland
The period before the Little Ice Age was in fact preceded by a several hundred-year period with generally warmer-than-average temperature conditions. During this time, Greenland (which was actually green during this warm period) was settled near the end of the 10th century. From 1000-3000 CE, the colony flourished: a cathedral was built, a monastery and a nunnery existed, and more than 3,000 colonist lived on 300 farms. But as the Little Ice Age approached, Weather continually degenerated for the colonists. Harvests failed, settlements to the north were abandoned as the permafrost level rose and glaciers spread south. In fact, today archeological studies of the Greenland colony date graves based on how shallow the coffin was buried because of the increased permafrost level over time.

http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/Weather ... bigen.html

[timmac]

"Our years are turned upside down; our summers are no summers; our harvests are no harvests"
-John King, 1595

[Ainan]

Thor Heyerdahl was right timmac. Red haired, blue eyed people who are obviously from the British ethnic group sailed around the world in the pre-roman era. They built pyramid structures all around the world, particularly in the new world, to warn us about the coming ice age. Great civilisations have existed in interglacials before and perished, now it's our turn.

[hillsidedigger]

Here's a long article about Greenland before the mini ice age.

Glaciers and Greenland-The period before the Little Ice Age was in fact preceded by a several hundred-year period with generally warmer-than-average temperature conditions. During this time, Greenland (which was actually green during this warm period) was settled near the end of the 10th century. From 1000-3000 CE, the colony flourished: a cathedral was built, a monastery and a nunnery existed, and more than 3,000 colonist lived on 300 farms. But as the Little Ice Age approached, Weather continually degenerated for the colonists. Harvests failed, settlements to the north were abandoned as the permafrost level rose and glaciers spread south. In fact, today archeological studies of the Greenland colony date graves based on how shallow the coffin was buried because of the increased permafrost level over time.

link

Those 300 farms weren't many and were scattered along the immediate coastline of Greenland in locations that would be green today and during the intervening period were it not for the fact that the few livestock of those few farms denuded the very limited greenery of Greenland in short order allowing the few limited areas of very thin and fragile topsoil where grass could grow to be destroyed and a thousand years is not long enough for topsoil to become re-established in such a place as Greenland.

Believe it or not Greenland is huge and those 300 farms didn't start to cover more than a tiny fraction of one percent of Greenland.

[mcgowanjm]

All multi year ice that's left is now 'rotten'.

2013 Arctic Ice Free.

Which opens up Greenland to complete melt.

Which forces evac of East Coasts worldwide.

Oceans rise accelerating.

When something does push the ecosystem outside of the boundaries it can tolerate, the long growth phase can morph into a rapid and chaotic release and reorganization phase, where nutrients and energy stores previously tied up can suddenly be liberated. This can be associated with a considerable loss of complexity, but also with much greater potential for generalist strategies and for novelty.

[Ludi]

All multi year ice that's left is now 'rotten'.

2013 Arctic Ice Free.

Which opens up Greenland to complete melt.

Which forces evac of East Coasts worldwide.

Oceans rise accelerating.

Are you saying the East Coast will start evacuating in 2013?

[hillsidedigger]

All multi year ice that's left is now 'rotten'.

2013 Arctic Ice Free.

Which opens up Greenland to complete melt.

Which forces evac of East Coasts worldwide.

Oceans rise accelerating.

Are you saying the East Coast will start evacuating in 2013?

It will take a few years for Greenland to melt much although I sometimes wonder if huge lakes might form on Greenland held back by ice-dams that might suddenly collapse sending 1,000' tall surges of water into the ocean. I imagine that could generate immense tidal waves up and down the Atlantic coasts.

[dissident]

Are you saying the East Coast will start evacuating in 2013?

His point is valid, there is a serious underestimation of the heating of the Arctic Ocean. The melt will be accelerating well past 2100 since the greenhouse gas loading is rapidly increasing. So predictions of 55 cm seal level rise from ice cap melt by 2100 are silly. Nobody will need to evacuate in 2013 but it looks like we will have a 1 meter sea level rise by 2050 (it may be 4 meters by 2100). This assumes that the Greenland ice melt will be gradual and not catastrophic, which is reasonable in the next 40 years since the ocean and atmospheric warming will be moderate. We'll still have plenty of Arctic sea ice in winter by 2100.

[vtsnowedin]

All multi year ice that's left is now 'rotten'.

2013 Arctic Ice Free.

Which opens up Greenland to complete melt.

Which forces evac of East Coasts worldwide.

Oceans rise accelerating.

And just who is your source for this? Al Gore? CRU?

[rdsaltpower]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 991177.ece

When starting a new thread, please post more than just an URL. Please include a brief paragraph of the item that you think is important, and your perspective on the statement.-FL

[Jotapay]

Be careful. The global warming fanatic/cultists (who ignore science) will rush over to stomp your head into a bloody mash in a few minutes.

[Jotapay]

Here is a quote from the article. Damn global warming Nazi shysters.

A WARNING that climate change will melt most of the Himalayan glaciers by 2035 is likely to be retracted after a series of scientific blunders by the United Nations body that issued it.

Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035.

In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report.

It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.

Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was "speculation" and was not supported by any formal research.

[mcgowanjm]

Here is a quote from the article. Damn global warming Nazi shysters.

A WARNING that climate change will melt most of the Himalayan glaciers by 2035 is likely to be retracted after a series of scientific blunders by the United Nations body that issued it.

Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035.

In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report.

It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.

Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was "speculation" and was not supported by any formal research.

And yet we must assume that Antarctica is undergoing record melt as we speak and know that Australia is experiencing record
heat as we speak.

That the Oceans are hotter than they've ever been and so
2010 will be the hottest ever, meaning that
2010 will also be one of the Worst Harvests ever.

The USDA will find it harder and harder to cover up these worst harvests. And a BTW:

Why doesn't someone just compare Sat Images of Himalayan
Glaciers over the past 3 Decades.

[Jotapay]

Good points, mcgowanjm. I'm not saying that humans are not changing our planet. I'm completely against the outright liars and corrupt bureaucrats who are pushing their global warming agenda to further enslave the population.

This was planned long ago and has nothing to do with science.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Club_of_Rome

In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill ... All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Good points, mcgowanjm. I'm not saying that humans are not changing our planet. I'm completely against the outright liars and corrupt bureaucrats who are pushing their global warming agenda to further enslave the population.

Fair point. There seem to be so few voices of moderation in ANY complex or critical debate, which just leads to lots of confusion.

For example, I like Lomborg's (well known skeptical economist who actually evaluates real scientific data) view that climate action is called for - but greatly tempered UNTIL WE KNOW MORE, have more accurate models, etc. Else we risk wasting lots of money, which we can't afford with a global economy already beset with many big problems. Once we know more AND more likely have better technology, we can likey "do something" MUCH more wisely and efficiently.

He has repeatedly and clearly stated this position in his books like "The Skeptical Environmentalist", and when he has spoken on CSPAN, etc. However, he is roundly attacked as a denier, a crackpot, accused of fudging data, etc. by the greens.

Hell, he's even for a carbon tax - he just wants it to start SMALL.

With so little honest, critical debate available for the "common man" to understand, no wonder things end up getting so screwed up.

Energy, climate, water, the economy, the military, terrorism, drugs, medicine -- you pick it, our leaders will lie and obfuscate and screw it up, just so they can be re-elected.

[Ludi]

our leaders will lie and obfuscate and screw it up, just so they can be re-elected.

I don't understand this idea that our elected employees are our "leaders." Do you really want to be "led" by these guys?

That's where I think we fail utterly - when we believe our elected employees are our "leaders." Holy crapping crap!

[Outcast_Searcher]

our leaders will lie and obfuscate and screw it up, just so they can be re-elected.

I don't understand this idea that our elected employees are our "leaders." Do you really want to be "led" by these guys?

That's where I think we fail utterly - when we believe our elected employees are our "leaders." Holy crapping crap!

OK. Maybe we're having a semantics problem. Will you accept that they are our elected REPRESENTITIVES? That they have the power to (and do) make the laws we are forced to live under? That they spend our tax dollars to run things how they see fit?

If you don't like the term leaders, fine, we can use bastards, slaveowners, or evildoers. Whatever we call them, I stand by my point that they are unprincipled screwups who will do just about any stupid thing to get re-elected, no matter how much it screws things up.

I don't think this is the set of principles our founding fathers envisioned for our representatives to operate under, BTW.

[Ludi]

I stand by my point that they are unprincipled screwups who will do just about any stupid thing to get re-elected, no matter how much it screws things up.

Looks about right to me!

[Shar_Lamagne]

A British research team studying the Greenland ice has discovered that the ice sheet in their region had lowered six metres in just a month.

Dr Alun Hubbard, leading a team from the universities of Swansea and Aberystwyth said that the phenomenon is caused by surface melt, a vicious cycle in which melted ice brings about further thawing of the cap beneath it.

According to geologists, its rate of reduction has tripled in the last ten years.

link

[Asterisk]

yep, we're f#cked.