dissident wrote:The only near-commerical stage fast neutron reactor on the planet is the BN-800.
I note you didn't mention the
BN-1200? Oh yeah, because it doesn't exist yet.
Yet. It's so easy to dismiss a whole category of technology with terse statements like "only near-commerical stage fast neutron reactor on the planet". That's now. That's too narrow a snapshot of the overall trends. It's like saying "It's warm today, so I deny climate change." Or worse, "The world only has a market for 4 computers." Remember that these projects are huge infrastructure commitments from multiple countries, kind of like building the Large Hadron Collider (although not
quite as extreme as that.) But they're still big investments. So with the GFC etc some of the participating countries have slowed programs down, but there are many — taking a variety of approaches to FNR design. There's Astrid in France, partly funded by Japanese corporations. Indeed, Atrid is really interesting because due to GFC slow-downs, it sounds like Japan is getting frustrated and about to split off and go their own way!
In June 2018 the French government stated that Astrid will have its capacity scaled down from the initially planned 600 MWe to between 100 and 200 MWe to reduce construction costs and also due to development of a commercial fast reactor no longer being a high priority. Following the decision, Toshiba said that the smaller Astrid would be a step back for Japan's fast reactor development process, possibly forcing the country to build its own larger demonstration reactor in Japan rather than rely on Astrid.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/informatio ... ctors.aspxIndeed, just have a browse at the link above through all the countries and programs still underway. Some of these are shorter term, others out to 2050.
dissident wrote:Molten salt reactors get lots of lip service but never leave the test stage.
I blame Nixon. The original molten salt reactor test worked well, but then Nixon wanted a jobs program in California for political reasons and didn't understand the MSR program and joked that he didn't quite get all this sciencey stuff, and funded the fast breeder program as well. Now the FNR is still a good reactor, and the programs I linked to above could ultimately produce ultra-safe ultra-cheap breeder reactors that eat nuclear waste and would have survived the Fukushima power outage easy. But. The MSR is the road-not-taken, the great 'what if'? It has even greater safety, greater efficiency, and the super-high temperatures of this thing mean it could perform so many other industrial processes (hydrogen cracking and any industrial processes requiring extreme heat) that its electricity is almost a by-product!
dissident wrote:It looks like the corrosion of the piping and the need for developed chemical reprocessing technology is basically ignored by advocates but is a show stopper.
I don't think it's a show stopper at all from what I'm reading? The MSR program identified these issues about 60 years ago, and materials science has bounded ahead since then. Also, which fuel mix? There are many, some more corrosive, some less. If corrosion was identified as a 'show stopper' in the 1969 Argonne labs tests, why are there so many different MSR and SSR programs in the world?
http://www.world-nuclear.org/informatio ... ctors.aspxdissident wrote:Carter killed the molten salt reactor chances by killing nuclear "waste" reprocessing.
And Bill Clinton shut down the great EBR2 Fast Neutron Reactor program due to plutonium concerns as well, and our Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison has approved yet another giant coal mine. Politicians are sometimes uninformed, sometimes wilful lobby-appeasing morons. But this does not reflect on what is possible in the science.
France has the reprocessing capacity but is not working on any molten salt reactors.
Hmmm, depends what you mean by 'France'. As a State, or as a member of the EU? I mean, it looks like you didn't even read the wiki before making that statement?
The CNRS project EVOL (Evaluation and viability of liquid fuel fast reactor system) project, with the objective of proposing a design of the MSFR (Molten Salt Fast Reactor),[26] released its final report in 2014.[27] R& Various MSR projects like FHR, MOSART, MSFR, and TMSR have common R&D themes.[28] The EVOL project will be continued by the EU-funded Safety Assessment of the Molten Salt Fast Reactor (SAMOFAR) project, in which several European research institutes and universities collaborate.[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_sa ... tor#France
There is now renewed interest in the MSR concept in Japan, Russia, China, France and the USA, and one of the six Generation IV designs selected for further development is the MSR in two distinct variants, the molten salt fast reactor (MSFR) and the advanced high temperature reactor (AHTR) – also known as the fluoride salt-cooled high-temperature reactor (FHR) with solid fuel, or PB-FHR specifically with pebble fuel. The Generation IV international Forum (GIF) mentions 'salt processing' as a technology gap for MSRs, putting the initial focus clearly on burners rather than breeders.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/informatio ... ctors.aspx
Japan is way behind after wasting all its time on the nonsensical Monju test reactor (which is a conversion of a water moderated/cooled type design instead of the French concept) and does not have any nuclear reprocessing capability. And this capability is not something one gets in a few years by spending some money.
Maybe not a FEW years, but as I've repeatedly said the world should mass produce
today's best passive-safety Gen3 reactors like the AP1000 (or better) as these will produce the perfect fuel for
tomorrow's breeders. We've still got enough uranium for a few generations to get the breeder thing perfected. Indeed, nuclear advocates and boosters like Michael Shellenberger say we should NOT build breeders yet but concentrate on standardising the best passive-safety reactor we have now and MASS produce it to bring costs down and defeat energy poverty and climate change.
Having restated that qualification, breeder programs are (slowly) moving along in the countries you appear to be having a go at. There's negotiations and planning seminars and reengineering workshops, but gradually these things tend to come to fruition, spend a bunch of money, and
finally build something. You mentioned Japan?
Here's their plan, and it might be good to browse this page as well to get a summary of all the other SSR and MSR programs around the world. I'd bet on the UK's Solid Salt Reactor before any Molten Salt Reactor.
Fuji MSR
The Fuji MSR is a 100-200 MWe graphite-moderated design to operate as a near-breeder with ThF4-UF4 fuel salt and FLiBe coolant at 700°C. It can consume plutonium and actinides, and be from 100 to 1000 MWe. Batch reprocessing. It is being developed internationally by a Japanese, Russian and US consortium: the International Thorium Molten Salt Forum (ITMSF), based in Japan. It is derived from the Oak Ridge MSBR, and several variants have been designed, including a 10 MWe mini Fuji. Thorium Tech Solutions Inc (TTS) plan to commercialise the Fuji concept, and is working on it with the Halden test reactor in Norway.
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/