[allenwrench]

When TEOTWAK arrives and most are out of work and business shut down will the government put a moratorium on all debt, rents, taxes, etc.? Or will they let the landlords and note holders throw everyone in the street?

[Cloud9]

What needs to happen is to let the business cycle cycle. Federal intervention will reward banks and borrowers for bad behavior. Let the forclosures happen. When hundreds of thousands of houses go up on the aution block, housing will become affordable again.

Check out the penny auctions of the 1930's.

[RdSnt]

When TEOTWAK arrives and most are out of work and business shut down will the government put a moratorium on all debt, rents, taxes, etc.? Or will they let the landlords and note holders throw everyone in the street?

If conditions get to the state you have described it will be well beyond the ability of government to do anything about it and the general public wouldn't be listening anyways.
The elite will be hiding behind concrete walls and hired mercenaries by that time.

[jlw61]

When TEOTWAK arrives and most are out of work and business shut down will the government put a moratorium on all debt, rents, taxes, etc.? Or will they let the landlords and note holders throw everyone in the street?

When TEOTWAWKI comes, the bankers will not be anywhere near the last to close.

No money changing hands = no business = no bank.

This is not going to be like the 1930's. It's going to be far worse than any of us can imagine for business, in the short to medium term. And I pray I'm wrong in all of this.

[Cloud9]

The federal government leans far more to the left than it did in the 1930's. Hoover could not wrap his mind around the idea that it was the government's job to sustain the unemployed. Today that idea is a given.

There is still enough fuel to run agriculture, rail and government. I hope that the government will step in and create workfare instead of the doll.

[vision-master]

The federal government leans far more to the left than it did in the 1930's. Hoover could not wrap his mind around the idea that it was the government's job to sustain the unemployed. Today that idea is a given.

There is still enough fuel to run agriculture, rail and government. I hope that the government will step in and create workfare instead of the doll.

Why would that be?

Do you happen to know anyone who grow up in the 30's. How about someone that had no food or heat? Well I do. You haven't a clue -spoiled to the core ya are. :twoflaimingfingers:

[wisconsin_cur]

When TEOTWAK arrives and most are out of work and business shut down will the government put a moratorium on all debt, rents, taxes, etc.? Or will they let the landlords and note holders throw everyone in the street?

If conditions get to the state you have described it will be well beyond the ability of government to do anything about it and the general public wouldn't be listening anyways.
The elite will be hiding behind concrete walls and hired mercenaries by that time.

And at some point, if they are semi-competent, they will officially declare as law that which is a fact on the ground, a declaration of un-enforcable debts as null and void.

[Kingcoal]

I don't think the government can do very much. After all, mortgages are private contracts and the government is bound by the Constitution to respect peoples private property. The government can change regulations or they can provide a benefit program for people who are affected, but that's about it.

Being a private security worker might be a great job in the future. It puts you on the nice side of the fence.

[NeoPeasant]

Homelessness? Mr. Potter will be happy to rent your house back to you after he buys it for pennies on the dollar.

[truecougarblue]

Re: Homelessness?

It's tiresome to see all the sob-stories in the press about people in foreclosure who will now be, "homeless".

The reality is that most of them will either move in with family, or, (gasp) RENT.

They were renters to begin with and have proven that they can't actually hack it as owners. (debtors)

If a moratorium is called on debt we can all say hello to a barter society because the banks won't be lending enough to buy a cup of joe.

[virgincrude]

Back in May this report caught my eye:

Squatters Move In

Squatting is on the rise across the United States as foreclosures surge, eviction notices mount and homes go unsold for months, complicating the worst U.S. housing slump in a quarter century and forcing real-estate brokers to enlist the help of law enforcement and courts to sell empty houses.
In some regions, squatting is taking on new twists to include real-estate scams in which thieves "rent out" abandoned homes they don't own. Others involve "professional squatters" who move from one abandoned home to another posing as tenants who seek cash from banks as a condition to leave the premises -- a process known by real-estate brokers as "cash for key."
"There are people who move in and know exactly who to contact and say 'If you want this house, why don't you come out here and offer me cash,'" said Detective Erin Camphouse of the Los Angeles Police Department's Real Estate Fraud Unit.
"It's just cheaper for the banks to do that rather than going into the courts," she said. "The squatters are getting sophisticated and turning it on these banks who own the properties."
She cited another case in which a Los Angeles man recently "leased" three abandoned homes to unsuspecting renters through Craig's List, the online classified advertising company. The renters paid first and last month deposits, moved their belongings in and lived in the homes for several months.
"In one case, there were loose ends of rehab on the house that needed to be done and the crook wasn't coming through or wasn't completing it. So they offered to do it instead of paying rent. They put down tiles and carpet and all that kind of stuff. And it wasn't until the sheriff put the lockout notice on the door that they realized something was wrong."

I thought it was a wonderful example of human inventivess. Except for the misery caused to those who were forced out.

[Dreamtwister]

Ithe government is bound by the Constitution to respect peoples private property.

And which government would that be?

[Captain_Meh]

"Debt moratorium or massive homelessness in the US?"

IMO, neither. I predict another bailout, moral hazard be damned.

[nocar]

If I were a bank, and the government did not help in this situation, I might evict delinquent lenders to begin with. But then I would discover that being stuck with a lot of empty houses is no good. Such houses quickly get ruined. So I have the choice of trying to sell the houses in a market where noone is buyer, or getting a little bit of money back by letting people rent it. The renters would likely be people who were evicted from a house down the street. Then I might discover that the delinquent people who already live in a house and should be evicted might be willing to rent it at a higher rate then their neighbors in similar circumstances who had been evicted. In the first place, they save the cost and trouble of moving, and in the second place they do not have to tell anyone that they actually 'have lost their home'.

This scenario of course rests on the assumption that there are lots of people not being about to afford their mortgages.

nocar

[Serial_Worrier]

The banks built a model based on the hope that evicted FBers wouldn't trash the home. I wouldn't count on that hope. Also are the banks going to pay for extra round-the-clock security to make sure the homes don't get trashed?

[MacG]

This scenario of course rests on the assumption that there are lots of people not being about to afford their mortgages.

It also rests on the assumption that the banks have the experienced staff needed to work out all those agreements, and that the banks actually bother about it at all.

The loan origination processes were largely automated and now the banks are swapping defaulted loans against fresh treasury notes in obscure alphabet soups of "loan programs".

Frankly, I don't think the banks bother very much about such petty details as people living in houses or not. They just go trough the movements and don't bother about the outcome on the ground.

[Bman4k1]

Well if it gets any worse. Every single Canadian is going to own a home in the USA. I know if it gets any worse I am going to buy a couple of homes in the US.

[Cloud9]

Yes. My parents were teenagers in the 1930's. My mom is still alive and doing well. They went throught the whole WWII thing and ration coupons and the whole bit. Bottom line the world did not end. I grew up on stories of the great depression. My mom still saves on social security. My dad said there will always be a market for babes, booze, bibles and beans even in the hardest of times. I think Capone averaged about $60 million a year during the depression. Hustlers will survive. People will always make money.

[Ludi]

During the Depression, 1/3 of all farmers lost their farms before the government did anything.

[nocar]

My mom is still alive and doing well. They went throught the whole WWII thing and ration coupons and the whole bit. Bottom line the world did not end. I grew up on stories of the great depression.

American always seem to think that the great depression was the worst period to be in. Then imagine being a civilian in Germany in WWII. Those were tough times, with bombs falling allover, and very little to eat, and all men being drafted. Still, the world did not end, there was no real Madmax scenario, and most civilians survived. WW1, and the depression in between with run-away inflation, were bad there too. Not all Germans liked Hitler and his ideas, but they got no exemption from bombs and hardship (rather the opposite since they were less likely to have good connections with the ruling Nazis.)

More recently, the Russians have had their savings snatched away more than once in various money reforms. Still no general chaos.

That is why I do not believe in a total breakdown of society due to Peak Oil. Although there will be lots of changes and adjustments that people have to make. And it is good to grow some food in a garden.

nocar