[burtonridr]

Dont pass this one up, if you think it is ok for the president to make decisions without due process then just ignore this.

If you think that everyone, including the president should be kept in check, then please spread the word and follow the link.

This is seriously borderline dictatorship.....

Help support this

https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?p ... age&id=557

[Fishman]

Burton
I assume you don't read much history. Presidents have done much "worse" that this one has ever done restricting rights during a time of war. If your enemy is using your freedoms to kill you, it might be wise to curb them for a period of time. Remember 9/11 killed more US civilians than any war since the Civil War, oh yea, Lincoln restricted hab corpus during that little problem also.

[Dreamtwister]

If your enemy is using your freedoms to kill you, it might be wise to curb them for a period of time.

I cannot even begin to articulate my disgust at this sentiment. How can you call yourself an American?

[like_the_dinosaurs]

Just exactly how did americans having freedom allow a terrorist attack to occur. It had nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with fear mongering to get people to think like you so the government can take what ever they like and you will give it too them with a great big dirty smile on your face. See the point is, allow governments too much control and they end up being far worse than any terrorist group could hope for.

It's a balancing act between personal freedoms and protections. If your trying too argue the petriot act is a positve step foward or even necessary then perhaps you should have lived in stalin or hitlers time. maybe you would have been more comfortable their.(oh yeah and safe too.)

State terrorism should worry people a great deal more.

[SPPNPO]

Fishman - are you serious?

Past wrongs (WWII Asian interment camps as another example) due not justify continued or present day violations of the law.

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Richard Jackson (not Benjamin Franklin as commonly attributed to)

[burtonridr]

Burton
I assume you don't read much history. Presidents have done much "worse" that this one has ever done restricting rights during a time of war.

Yea previous presidents may have made mistake and taken rights away, does that make the current president right for taking them away now? Hell No!

Does that make them bad presidents? No, sometimes they are i'll informed or whatever. It takes a lot to be a good leader, protect freedoms and protect the country.

There is no need to continue giving the president this kind of power.

If your enemy is using your freedoms to kill you, it might be wise to curb them for a period of time. Remember 9/11 killed more US civilians than any war since the Civil War, oh yea, Lincoln restricted hab corpus during that little problem also.

9/11 death toll 2,750 est

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?secti ... id=5333323

WW2 Death Toll 400,000 US Military

http://warchronicle.com/numbers/WWII/deaths.htm

Civil war death toll 618,000

http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

Iraq "war on terrorism" death toll

4,083 American soldiers
84,000-91,000 Iraqis

http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/05/ ... th_to.html

The attack killed a lot of people, the resulting war killed a lot more.....

Sure we have not had another terrorist attack on American soil since we started the war, however I believe we could have accomplished the same, if not better results, by not going to war.

By better results I mean, we wouldnt have pissed off nearly EVERYONE and hindered our foreign relations with some of the countries.

Vote for pedro!

I approve this message,

Pedro

[Plantagenet]

This is seriously borderline dictatorship.....

Dictatorships don't have free elections.

[Dreamtwister]

This is seriously borderline dictatorship.....

Dictatorships don't have free elections.

No, but they often have staged elections.

[Cloud9]

Mr. Bush will very shortly be an item of history. His glory days are about over. What you really need to worry about is the political leanings of the next president.

My gut feeling is that there is a greater chance of a storm trooper kicking in my door under Mr. Obama than there ever was under Mr. Bush.

Echos of Ruby Ridge and Waco come to mind.

[Plantagenet]

This is seriously borderline dictatorship.....

Dictatorships don't have free elections.

No, but they often have staged elections.

Which election do you imagine will be staged?

[Dreamtwister]

Which election do you imagine will be staged?

Rather than taking your (very obvious) bait, I'll simply say "All of them, at every level of government, and the problem has been growing worse since 1812 when Elbridge Gerry discovered he could redraw the boundries of his state to the benefit of his party."

[Kaj]

Iraq "war on terrorism" death toll[/b]

84,000-91,000 Iraqis

I know its disputed, but the number just has to be far higher than that. The number you cite is only the reported deaths from Iraq Body Count; however the vast, vast majority of deaths have gone unreported. We should not rely on Iraq Body Count.

A reliable British poll which uses the same techniques as the UN to measure genocide deaths estimated a couple of years back 655,000 civilian deaths in Iraq.
So its surely closer to 1 million or more civilian deaths now.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printeditio ... &cset=true

No government involved in the war will admit this though.

[Fishman]

Most of the above a strong arguement to vote for the Clueless Obama. We'll try a little experiment, let Obama repeal it, see how things go. Hope you guys and gals are not in New York. Fearmongering, nope, just my study of history.

[burtonridr]

Most of the above a strong arguement to vote for the Clueless Obama. We'll try a little experiment, let Obama repeal it, see how things go. Hope you guys and gals are not in New York. Fearmongering, nope, just my study of history.

I dont understand what your stance is on this subject....

Do you think there should be due process? Or do you think that the president should be able to do what ever he feels like?

Strong argument to vote for obama?

[mos6507]

Just exactly how did americans having freedom allow a terrorist attack to occur.

Freedom to overstay your visa and take flying lessons in Florida.

[Plantagenet]

Do you think there should be due process? Or do you think that the president should be able to do what ever he feels like?

You need to study the US Constitution. If you read carefully you'll see that the president's powers are subject to checks and balances by the other branches of government (Congress and the Supreme Court).

You seem to be under the delusion that President Bush is doing "what ever he feels like" when the facts don't support your view. For instance, the Supreme Court just yesterday, for the third time, threw out the rules and laws that the president and Congress have established for handling the detainees in GITMO.