[desultorypawn]

Large state colleges tend to be a city themselves and I am interested to see how life will be affected at large universities. Given that tuition, meal plans, board and everything is fixed costs what would happen if oil costs (food, buses, heating, etc) starting rising rapidly?

Will they become a sheltered oasis or crumble?

[Cashmere]

College admissions will follow a bell curve.

The tremendous increase in the attendance at colleges has been, like so much else, a direct result of the oil age.

When oil runs out, so too will will college admittance decline.

This will occur both because there won't be any jobs worth going to college to get and because the cost of college will be too much for most people.

We will return to the days when only the children of the wealthy go to college.

[allenwrench]

Large state colleges tend to be a city themselves and I am interested to see how life will be affected at large universities. Given that tuition, meal plans, board and everything is fixed costs what would happen if oil costs (food, buses, heating, etc) starting rising rapidly?

Will they become a sheltered oasis or crumble?

One local private Catholic HS shut down. Their heating bill was $16,000 a month. They had a small student base and just couldn't cut it.

A local private college has been scaling back a lot over the last few years. They have budget problems that are getting worse as the high utility rates keep skyrocketing.

I think one area that will suffer is that of traveling athletics, if they have trouble getting fuel.

I guess gasoline will eventually be rationed by a hierarchy of needs.

1 Gov and military
2 Transports
3 Local Services
4 A few gallons a week for the general public.

Also commuters may decide to go local instead of traveling to school each day or just board at school.

But what are all the kids going to study?

Many of the majors offered in college are not that conduce to life in post carbon world.

Has PO put any doubt into your major if you are still in school?

[allenwrench]

College admissions will follow a bell curve.

The tremendous increase in the attendance at colleges has been, like so much else, a direct result of the oil age.

When oil runs out, so too will will college admittance decline.

This will occur both because there won't be any jobs worth going to college to get and because the cost of college will be too much for most people.

We will return to the days when only the children of the wealthy go to college.

Sounds like travel in the future as well..only for the wealthy.

[desultorypawn]

Has PO put any doubt into your major if you are still in school?

I'm studying informatics which is essentially using technology to make things more efficient, so, luckily I've picked a pretty broad major where (I hope) the concepts and theories will be applicable to a PO world, however it has definitely shifted my world view on the actual need or ROI(financial and time) of a current college degree.

But much like all bureaucratic systems, up and through the hula hoops.

This coming fall starts my last year, last summer I didn't think TSWHTF this soon, but it's starting to look pretty possible by this fall/winter. So I'm hoping university is a decent place to be...

[Serial_Worrier]

Has PO put any doubt into your major if you are still in school?

I'm studying informatics which is essentially using technology to make things more efficient, so, luckily I've picked a pretty broad major where (I hope) the concepts and theories will be applicable to a PO world, however it has definitely shifted my world view on the actual need or ROI(financial and time) of a current college degree.

But much like all bureaucratic systems, up and through the hula hoops.

This coming fall starts my last year, last summer I didn't think TSWHTF this soon, but it's starting to look pretty possible by this fall/winter. So I'm hoping university is a decent place to be...

Don't buy into the doomerism. Everything will be fine and you will be making 6-figure salaries forever.....

[Tyler_JC]

My guess is that Media Studies, Sociology, and the other silly degrees will slowly go out of style.

Biology, chemistry, engineering, math, etc. will increasingly take over from the liberal arts majors as the return on investment for some LA degrees starts to turn negative. (If it isn't negative already!)

Some of the small private liberal arts colleges will go bankrupt and some of the useless public institutions will also vanish.

Harvard, Princeton, and MIT will be around till the sun burns out.

[desultorypawn]

Has PO put any doubt into your major if you are still in school?

I'm studying informatics which is essentially using technology to make things more efficient, so, luckily I've picked a pretty broad major where (I hope) the concepts and theories will be applicable to a PO world, however it has definitely shifted my world view on the actual need or ROI(financial and time) of a current college degree.

But much like all bureaucratic systems, up and through the hula hoops.

This coming fall starts my last year, last summer I didn't think TSWHTF this soon, but it's starting to look pretty possible by this fall/winter. So I'm hoping university is a decent place to be...

Don't buy into the doomerism. Everything will be fine and you will be making 6-figure salaries forever.....

Too late, I've already fallen right down the rabbit hole.

[dohboi]

Tyler, I agree that some types of colleges will do better than others. But DOW Chemicals, a major employer of chemists, is shitting bricks because of the rising cost of their major inputs, especially natural gas. There will likely be fewer, not more, chemists post peak.

Here's a furthere question, relating to the larger country/city question:

Will rural colleges do better because they are close to food sources, or will urban colleges have the better chance of survival, since most students will not have to travel as far to get to them?

Another question:

What would be the ideal post peak curriculum?

[mos6507]

I really think in the long term colleges are going to be seen as a waste of money vs. a trade school for most people.

[Tyler_JC]

Tyler, I agree that some types of colleges will do better than others. But DOW Chemicals, a major employer of chemists, is shitting bricks because of the rising cost of their major inputs, especially natural gas. There will likely be fewer, not more, chemists post peak.

Here's a furthere question, relating to the larger country/city question:

Will rural colleges do better because they are close to food sources, or will urban colleges have the better chance of survival, since most students will not have to travel as far to get to them?

Another question:

What would be the ideal post peak curriculum?

You don't buy into the mass starvation in the developed world, do you?

Regardless, wouldn't Dow Chemical want to figure out a way to make XYZ chemicals without natural gas? Wouldn't that require hiring lots of scientists and chemists?

A lack of inputs doesn't lead to mega-death, it leads to the search for new inputs. Most of those inputs are going to require sciencists. It doesn't even matter if the succeed. All you need to know is that the world will try.

And all of that trying means jobs for scientists.

[socrates1fan]

They will probably suffer but not as badly as people anticipate on here.
I'm going to go to college regardless of the economic crisis even if it means I have to scrub floors all night.
I'm going for historical preservation.

[cube]

I really think in the long term colleges are going to be seen as a waste of money vs. a trade school for most people.

agreed.
I don't expect public perception to change overnight but it will eventually.

Whenever the topic of education comes up I do NOT shy away from giving my opinion --> I think we are spending too much money on higher education. MOST people IRL give me funny looks and think I'm crazy for saying this. Society has been hoodwinked into thinking that "education" is an investment that will always pay off financially. NO There's an important concept in economics called "over-supply".

If we take a brutally honest look at the truth, an economy only needs maybe 10% college graduates. Not everybody can be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. There's only so many of those jobs that can realistically exist. So why is it that so many people have this delusional idea that creating more college graduates is going to also magically create high paying jobs has me convinced liberals do NOT have financial common sense.
//
Anyways PO will kill off most of the college system. Much like SUV's and airlines the college system we have today exists in size and scope only because of cheap energy.

[emailking]

My guess is that Media Studies, Sociology, and the other silly degrees will slowly go out of style.

Maybe they will go away, I don't know. But please describe what is so silly about these studies.

[Tyler_JC]

My guess is that Media Studies, Sociology, and the other silly degrees will slowly go out of style.

Maybe they will go away, I don't know. But please describe what is so silly about these studies.

Average income by major upon graduation.

It's great that you want to take sociology classes...but does it make any sense to spend $200,000 to get a degree in a subject that leads to a $30,000 a year career?

It's silly because it's a lousy investment.

When we're talking about the future of university education and the assumption that lots of people are going to be a lot poorer, there is no way that we are going to see anywhere near the same number of history or psychology majors.

[emailking]

My guess is that Media Studies, Sociology, and the other silly degrees will slowly go out of style.

Maybe they will go away, I don't know. But please describe what is so silly about these studies.

Average income by major upon graduation.

It's great that you want to take sociology classes...but does it make any sense to spend $200,000 to get a degree in a subject that leads to a $30,000 a year career?

It's silly because it's a lousy investment.

When we're talking about the future of university education and the assumption that lots of people are going to be a lot poorer, there is no way that we are going to see anywhere near the same number of history or psychology majors.

I already have a career in physics. That link gives figures for sociology. Why is media studies silly?

If you listen to a rather large faction on this board, what really matters as far as "investment" is learning to live completely on your own, separated from modern society. In that sense, the salary of your 'stay above water' job shouldn't matter much.

I think society has benefited from people studying sociology and applying it to how we can live our lives and relate to each other. Likewise I think society has benefited from people studying the media and how it works and can be improved or used in alternate manners (e.g. using the internet the disseminate information...information that, say, one might not hear from the MSM...).

In these senses I do not see how these fields of study are silly. Some people do things for the enjoyment and not for the FSN notes. Happiness is relative.

I agree we will see less of a focus on non-technical fields as energy is less available. The same was true in the 19th century. But that doesn't mean it was silly Dickinson to write her poems.

[cube]

....
I already have a career in physics. That link gives figures for sociology. Why is media studies silly?
If you listen to a rather large faction on this board, what really matters as far as "investment" is learning to live completely on your own, separated from modern society. In that sense, the salary of your 'stay above water' job shouldn't matter much.

I totally disagree.
There's a huge group of people who would argue that community and family would be even more critical in an economically declining world. I've said it before, the "Mad Max" aka "the lone warrior" scenario is unrealistic.

....
I think society has benefited from people studying sociology and applying it to how we can live our lives and relate to each other. Likewise I think society has benefited from people studying the media and how it works and can be improved or used in alternate manners (e.g. using the internet the disseminate information...information that, say, one might not hear from the MSM...).

In these senses I do not see how these fields of study are silly. Some people do things for the enjoyment and not for the FSN notes. Happiness is relative.

I agree we will see less of a focus on non-technical fields as energy is less available. The same was true in the 19th century. But that doesn't mean it was silly Dickinson to write her poems.

I think you're going off topic. This is NOT a discussion of whether or not people with low paying jobs have contributed to society. This is a discussion about the cold and hard facts about what the hell is going to happen to the college system post PO.
//
Having said that:
How many Americans are going to be signing up for Sociology, Women Studies, or French Language majors in a post PO world where gasoline costs $10/gallon?

[Cog]

The decision I made was to have the daughter take mandatory general studies classes at a junior/community college that will transfer to an university later on. Its about 1/3 the cost and from discussions with university professors and people in the science and engineering field, it makes no difference if you take Speech Com, Comparative religion, music appreciation etc. at Podunk community college then it would be to pay for these same courses at a university.

The university she has in mind is about a 20 mile drive. We have discussed how we are going to handle that matter as it would involve another car and the attendant fuel costs. We have discovered that a mass transit express bus goes to the university twice a day and she can get on it with a 5 minute walk. That means a long day at the university but she can still live at home and save the room and board aspect. She is still set on chemistry or chemical engineering.

I would expect community or junior colleges to do well as people try to cut costs pursuing a 4 yr degree.

[emailking]

I totally disagree.
There's a huge group of people who would argue that community and family would be even more critical in an economically declining world. I've said it before, the "Mad Max" aka "the lone warrior" scenario is unrealistic.

Fair enough. A lot of people here disagree obviously.

I think you're going off topic. This is NOT a discussion of whether or not people with low paying jobs have contributed to society. This is a discussion about the cold and hard facts about what the hell is going to happen to the college system post PO.
//

Well I don't really care if it's "off-topic" or not. But because they have contributed to society, that would make those fields not silly, would it not?

Having said that:
How many Americans are going to be signing up for Sociology, Women Studies, or French Language majors in a post PO world where gasoline costs $10/gallon?

I would guess more than 0. As an example, people studied languages at college before there was any gasoline.