[Troyboy1208]

Alright so I have this stuff stewing around in my head. I have many questions and since we have so many well informed posters on this site, I figured I would go ahead an put them out there.
1. As prices rise there will be less and less vehicles on the road. How will this affect gas tax revenue? Where will the revenue come from?
2. If gas also has sales tax included what is that going to do to sales tax? How are municpalities going to make up that shortfall?
3. If people are not buying vehicles, and since vehicles are so expensive, what is that going to do to sales tax?
4. Do you foresee an increase in the number of speed traps and the like to provide extra income for municipalities?
5. Will there be an extra tax that is levied each year that you own an electric vehicle that you have to pay because you are not paying to use the roads?
If any of you feel there are other major ramifications to less vehicles being on the road feel free to post them here. Thanks.

[Kingcoal]

In 1970, the situation was much worse. Back then, one in five jobs were directly related to the auto industry. GM went on strike and the economy held it's breath. These days, GM goes on strike and you hear yawns.

[Tyler_JC]

Alright so I have this stuff stewing around in my head. I have many questions and since we have so many well informed posters on this site, I figured I would go ahead an put them out there.
1. As prices rise there will be less and less vehicles on the road. How will this affect gas tax revenue? Where will the revenue come from?
2. If gas also has sales tax included what is that going to do to sales tax? How are municpalities going to make up that shortfall?
3. If people are not buying vehicles, and since vehicles are so expensive, what is that going to do to sales tax?
4. Do you foresee an increase in the number of speed traps and the like to provide extra income for municipalities?
5. Will there be an extra tax that is levied each year that you own an electric vehicle that you have to pay because you are not paying to use the roads?
If any of you feel there are other major ramifications to less vehicles being on the road feel free to post them here. Thanks.

1. Gas taxes will go up in order to compensate for the lower sales volumes. This will encourage people to consume less gasoline and lead to yet higher gas taxes. The price elasticity of demand for gasoline isn't perfect so we will reach some kind of equilibrium at $8 a gallon in a couple years (complete guess on that one).

2. Gas taxes pay for roads and bridges in the vast majority of states. Only a few states (California, Michigan, Illinois, Georgia and Hawaii and maybe another one) charge sales taxes on gasoline. I would not worry about sales tax revenue declines in response to reduced gasoline consumption. People will spend their money on other things so it's going to be a wash.

3. Again, people who stop buying cars will start buying something else. Cars are not taxed significantly heavier than computers or pillows. Car excise taxes are not a make or break for any government. I'd be more worried about the unemployed car salesmen.

4. Maybe? Does it matter? I don't speed and I don't worry about speed traps. Going faster than is necessary wastes gasoline and at $4 a gallon, I try not to waste a drop.

5. There is some talk of increasing tolls and I believe that that's how they plan on paying for the roads.

[jlw61]

Unfortunately the rise in gas prices and few vehicles on the road will be accompanied by massive unemployment and/or massive migration into the cities. More people living in the city will help bring in tax revenue, but the counties will suffer.

Any revenue shortfalls will be made up with things such as higher property taxes rather than service cuts or efficiency gains until home owners start to scream. However, since more and more people will be losing their homes and not directly paying property taxes (people are stupid) they will be happy to have city hall "stick it to 'em" and that will just feed into the foreclosure problem.

The solution is massive cuts in government spending and more self reliance.

Oh, God! I can't believe i said that!

[MonteQuest]

If any of you feel there are other major ramifications to less vehicles being on the road feel free to post them here. Thanks.

Less tires, batteries, car washes, auto parts, body repairs, less purchases from retail outlets along the road, motels, hotels, restaurants, and all other manner of franchises that cater to the automobile.

More unemployment and business failures in all those sectors.

[Troyboy1208]

If any of you feel there are other major ramifications to less vehicles being on the road feel free to post them here. Thanks.

Less tires, batteries, car washes, auto parts, body repairs, less purchases from retail outlets along the road, motels, hotels, restaurants, and all other manner of franchises that cater to the automobile.

More unemployment and business failures in all those sectors.

Jeez I didn't even consider that in my initial thought. Thanks for the input. If 10 million cars disapear is that really a large amount in the grand scheme of things? How many cars are on the road in the US? What percentage would 10 million cars make? thanks again

[emersonbiggins]

If any of you feel there are other major ramifications to less vehicles being on the road feel free to post them here. Thanks.

Less tires, batteries, car washes, auto parts, body repairs, less purchases from retail outlets along the road, motels, hotels, restaurants, and all other manner of franchises that cater to the automobile.

More unemployment and business failures in all those sectors.

Jeez I didn't even consider that in my initial thought. Thanks for the input. If 10 million cars disapear is that really a large amount in the grand scheme of things? How many cars are on the road in the US? What percentage would 10 million cars make? thanks again

5%, 250,000,000 passenger vehicles in the U.S.
link

Also, property taxes pay for most local streets and thoroughfares in the U.S. Fuel taxes typically only pay for state and federal highways.

[MonteQuest]

Jeez I didn't even consider that in my initial thought.

Most people do not even consider it after giving it some thought.

Conservation is a self-induced recession that leads to declining economic activity tha leads to lay-offs and business failures.

[AirlinePilot]

Jeez I didn't even consider that in my initial thought.

Most people do not even consider it after giving it some thought. Conservation is a self-induced recession that leads to declining economic activity tha leads to lay-offs and business failures.

Most people do not even consider it after giving it a LOT of thought because they dont believe something like this is even possible! Put that one in your pipe and smoke it. Chance favors the prepared mind.

[Nano]

Jeez I didn't even consider that in my initial thought.

Most people do not even consider it after giving it some thought. Conservation is a self-induced recession that leads to declining economic activity tha leads to lay-offs and business failures.

Most people do not even consider it after giving it a LOT of thought because they dont believe something like this is even possible! Put that one in your pipe and smoke it. Chance favors the prepared mind.

Most people that have considered it are already schemeing to protect themselves, internally free from the mass delusion but outwardly participating in it. You'll find them in all walks of life. Perhaps the ones at the top realise that the optimal strategy to win this game might be to try to control the die-off in ones favour? Or would they turn from that and just try to save their own?
Or maybe everyone is always schemeing, peak oil or no peak oil? Maybe nobody cares about anything as long as they are wealthy?

[TheDude]

Must read CIBC report: $7 per gallon gas by 2010

"Over the next four years, we are likely to witness the greatest mass exodus of vehicles off America's highways in history. By 2012, there should be some 10 million fewer vehicles on American roadways than there are today -- a decline that dwarfs all previous adjustments including those during the two OPEC oil shocks." The report has a very interesting analysis of vehicle scrappage trends versus new vehicle sales that I hadn't seen before. This is going to be a double whammy on Detroit -- lower overall vehicle sales and plummeting SUV and light-truck sales.

Scrappage is exactly what it sounds like. 95% of vehicles in the US are recycled.

There are 199 million licensed drivers in the US, so we will be headed for parity with the number of vehicles on the road. Average vehicle age is 6.6 years for LDVs, 9 years for cars. Expect those numbers to increase as credit tightens and fuel impacts prices at all sectors of the economy, with attendant pain on the auto industry.

Increase gas taxes? Motoring is non-discretionary for too many. Only 30% of the country live within 5 miles of where they work, and far too many are too out of shape to pedal that far. People in remote rural communities are really in for it, we're already seeing the dual whammy of their long treks to gas stations combined with their affection for big rigs.

I think Joel is on to something with bragging about embracing his SUV use. Carpooling is providing a de facto jitney service, and for all its faults will be what people will turn to in desperation, assuming their employers can stay in business in the first place. Perhaps gas guzzlers will begin to simply service general routes. Six passengers in an Outback at 15 MPG is mileage comparable to a good motorcycle's. But this is a sixfold reduction in potential gas tax collected when all passengers were flying solo, of course.

Carpooling is already popular - most recent stats I've seen (2004 I think) showed about 10% use nationwide.

[emersonbiggins]

Carpooling is already popular - most recent stats I've seen (2004 I think) showed about 10% use nationwide.

That sounds high, at least for commuting to work. If the definition of carpooling is limited to "multi-occupant vehicles," I wonder if soccer moms ferrying kids across town to/fro school are counted as well?

[TheDude]

Carpooling is already popular - most recent stats I've seen (2004 I think) showed about 10% use nationwide.

That sounds high, at least for commuting to work. If the definition of carpooling is limited to "multi-occupant vehicles," I wonder if soccer moms ferrying kids across town to/fro school are counted as well?

The terms do get blurred a bit, but a surprisingly large number do carpool - all those HOV lanes I guess.

Approximately one in 10 of us (10.7 percent) car pool to work. About three-fourths of car poolers (77.3 percent) ride with just one other person. Large cities with some of the highest rates of car pooling include Fresno, Calif. (15.1 percent); Honolulu (15.6 percent); Mesa, Ariz. (16.7 percent); Phoenix (16.2 percent); and Sacramento, Calif., (15.7 percent).

Most Americans Still Drive to Work Alone

Plenty of news items: Petrol prices driving California strangers to carpool for instance.

[Mesuge]

77% alone as of 2005?

There is some serious fat meat to be cut down!
The question is how fast, is it going to outrun the export land model runaway train and the horror depletion rates?

Fastforward few years, not only are you by now carpooling with that farty sleazy neighbor almost every 4day work week of yours, but you drive a gutted interior korean econobox and only 10mi to the nearest federal "DemocracyRidersPoint". A facility which will consist of parking at former big box store and new makeshift Greyhound bus station channeling most of the passangers to the local military contractor's factory..