[Specop_007]

Thats gonna leave a mark for the retiree's! Although its not entirely unexpected.
Click Shell-shocked GM retirees react: 'This is a knife stab in the back' After years of getting generous coverage, retirees from salaried jobs at General Motors Corp. reacted angrily Tuesday to the announcement that GM was ending their health benefits.

"I'm disappointed in the lifetime promise GM made to us," said John Fleming, 67, of Rochester Hills, a retired information system auditor. "We've been wiped off the books completely." Fleming was among the shell-shocked GM retirees wondering about what they'd do next for health care, following the surprise announcement that is part of GM's latest cost-cutting plan.

[highlander]

So how many more companies will jettison their healthcare to the federal government through bankruptcy or other means. What will be the tipping point when congress will say we might as well have a nationalized health care system, since we are getting it in pieces anyway?

[ohcomeon]

I feel for these people, but we've given corporations too much credit for having human qualities if we expect commitment from a group of people whose primary objective is to make money for themselves while they hide behind the corporation and "its" needs. Maybe I'm getting cynical in my years but anyone who is shocked by this, especially a GM employee, just amazes me. They're right. It's a knife-stab. But not a shock to most of us.

[CarlosFerreira]

OK, here's a commie opinion. Throw a brick at me if I get over the line.

The US Govt. dropped the whole idea of universal healthcare and social security. Companies took it in (asked for it) and started offering healthcare/dental care as part os contracts. Bottom line: if you make too much noise, the company will drop healthcare for you and you will die.

Strike, ask for more money, or don't work as much as we want, and you will die.

It's a social control thing. Being European, I can't understand this! Although, even in Europe, people are talking about a silly ideas as this one.

It's immoral, should be illegal. I will never buy an Opel.

[emersonbiggins]

GM should obviously cover occupational-related adverse health effects, but I see no reason that they should continue health insurance for those producing nothing for the company in return.

[eastbay]

GM should obviously cover occupational-related adverse health effects, but I see no reason that they should continue health insurance for those producing nothing for the company in return.

Well, in 'normal' times it might be to attract good workers and prevent strikes. White collar workers often piggy back with benefits too. But the unions no longer have any juice, plus, GM won't be doing much hiring again, that's for almost 100% certain so retaining qualified top-notch workers isn't a big issue for them.

[kevinr]

Not a shock to me at all. If GM continues to pay healthcare for it's retirees they go bankrupt, thus discontinuing health coverage for it's retirees.

[kpeavey]

GM should obviously cover occupational-related adverse health effects, but I see no reason that they should continue health insurance for those producing nothing for the company in return.

This was part of the pay/compensation package. They offered it, promoting long term employment. It was effective-GM had the benefit of a lifetime of dedicated labor from thousands of people. When it comes time to pay up, they skip out. BS in my opinion. I can see a lawsuit coming out of this. Papers are probably being filed as I type.

While I support the retirees in their endeavor to receive the benefits of employment which was promised, and to which they are legally and morally entitled, I would propose that this is only the first of many retirement benefit disappointments. In a declining economy, with retirement funds struggling to stay operational, and with declining sales, increasing costs and shrinking profit margins, benefits will take a pounding.

I have no retirement benefits at my job, although many of my coworkers do. I do not believe these benefits will be there when I am ready to retire. My retirement plan is a self sufficient homestead, close family and community, and local resources.

[smallpoxgirl]

Everyone thinks health care is a growth sector right now. I've got to say, I don't see it. I think this sort of thing is going to become a lot more common. I think that companies and individuals are going to discover that health insurance was something they could cut after all. It's going to require a new paradigm in American health care though. It's going to require an earnest push to abandon high-tech medicine and rediscover affordable medicine. It's also going to require, I think, that we follow Shakespear's advice vis-a-via malpractice lawyers. The technophilic health care model that the US, and to a lesser extent Europe have been pursuing, really needs to come to an end, and this may be the kind of thing that finally motivates us to make it happen.

[CarlosFerreira]

GM should obviously cover occupational-related adverse health effects, but I see no reason that they should continue health insurance for those producing nothing for the company in return.

I understand what you mean. I just don't think these people should be left with no healthcare to cover them.

Most will be older, and therefore difficult to endure in healthcare insurance companies. The state doesn't provide.

I just think that sounds a bit like saying that if you don't work, don't produce, we (the society) don't care and you might as well be off. To the grave.

Taxpayers don't want to pay for other people's treatments, corporations can bail out of providing these healthcares. Pooorer people always take the sharpest blow.
Here comes the brick...

[emersonbiggins]

GM should obviously cover occupational-related adverse health effects, but I see no reason that they should continue health insurance for those producing nothing for the company in return.

This was part of the pay/compensation package. They offered it, promoting long term employment. It was effective-GM had the benefit of a lifetime of dedicated labor from thousands of people. When it comes time to pay up, they skip out. BS in my opinion. I can see a lawsuit coming out of this. Papers are probably being filed as I type.

These contracts were written largely when GM held over a 50% market share, oil was $5 a barrel, and America had just put a man on the moon. In other words - completely different times.

If anything, I'm sure GM can declare (here I go mixing legalese again) force majeure on these contracts, basically stating that honoring them would, or rather, has, put GM in the dire financial situation that it now finds itself in.

It's obvious that something has to give, but these GM retirees should count themselves fortunate that they were able to, for their entire working lives, make far-above and beyond what someone with a similar skillset would make in today's marketplace. This reality check has been 50 years in coming.

[Tyler_JC]

If the choice is between losing the entire company or cutting a few benefits...who is going to fault GM for trying to save itself?

What good does a bankrupt GM do for its pensioners?

Nobody likes making cuts but sometimes you have to lose a finger to save the hand.

It's only a matter of time before the company goes completely bankrupt and is bought out by Toyota for 25 cents a share.

[eastbay]

I understand what you mean. I just don't think these people should be left with no healthcare to cover them.

Most will be older, and therefore difficult to endure in healthcare insurance companies. The state doesn't provide.

Well, actually in the USA we do provide medicare and medicaid for those of retirement age. So most of them should be ok. It'll just cost them a bit more, that's all.


Not the end of the world. Peak oil is the end of the world.

[anthem]

I tend to agree with SmallPoxGirl.. it is time for extensive reform of our so-called health care system. Most of the damn doctors are not really healing or curing anyone, just treating this or that symptom. Doctors and big pharma are ramming as many drugs down our throats as they can, and people are still dying of the same things they have been for the past 60 years, heart disease and cancer. What did I read recently, our 5% of the world's population consumes 75% of the prescription drugs produced? Outrageous.

My wife and I just had our third child, and looking at the detailed bill from the hospital one can definitely see where the train derailed as far as health care. We were billed $64 each and every hour just for the nurse to come in and "check" on my wife, which really was just, "hey, do you need anything". Stupid as hell. Of course, my insurance covered it. That's why GM can't afford health coverage for its employees and why this could eventually (if something else didn't do it first) collapse our entire economy.

My wife said, "What would we do if we didn't have insurance and had no money?" I said, "Let the government pay. If we had a little money, then we would be in trouble." I have heard, though, that when push comes to shove, if one is paying cash and can only pay cash, hospitals will take pennies on the (billed) dollar.

[TreeFarmer]

This is a problem I've been aware of for 20+ years but, as you might imagine, I'm pretty much a nobody so my voice is easily ignored if it is heard at all.

GM's mistake, and other companies as well, was making long-term commitments that were basically open ended. When GM promised healthcare until death they had no idea how long that would be as well as what it would cost per year along the way.

I don't believe that any company should make long-tem promises to employees. Compensation should be in the form of salary, current benefits while you work such as healthcare, and then contributions to the employee's own retirement plan such as a 401k. That way the company would always stay current with its obligations and would never find itself facing a multi-million or multi-billion dollar shortfall in its ability to meet previous promises.

While I'm very much a right winger, I'd also love to see companies limit executive compensation to some multiple of what front-line workers earn. Now, that multiple might be 100x, for example if a typical fornt-line worker makes 50,000 then the CEO could make 5,000,000. That would be a lot of money but it would also spread some of the wealth around while rewarding the person who made it to the top. Of course, this would be voluntary, no government legislation to make it mandatory.

TF

[vision-master]

"I'm disappointed in the lifetime promise GM made to us," said John Fleming, 67, of Rochester Hills, a retired information system auditor. "We've been wiped off the books completely."

Fleming was among the shell-shocked GM retirees wondering about what they'd do next for health care, following the surprise announcement that is part of GM's latest cost-cutting plan.

If your 67 you sign up for Medicare. How hard is that?

[Fishman]

Well said Smallpoxgirl. It looks like the health care corporation that happened to make cars decided that model was untenible. Apparently we can't afford all care for some, look for some (much less) care for all as the next model.
Anthem, try the model where noone checks on your wife and you can't sue if things don't go as you like. Next health care model up.

[RdSnt]

Poor GM, it's so unfair to have to actually pay up on their agreements.
What you are forgetting is that the funds for the coverage are not coming from general revenue. They were funds, supposed contributed by both parties, set asside (invested) for this purpose.
There was no mystery to the costs, it's a pretty straightforward actuarial formula that clearly showed what needed to be input to accumulate the appropriate funds.
GM chose to not add their share. That is criminal as far as I'm concerned.
This is not some luxurious perk, the workers paid their share, for the coverage that both parties agreed to pay for.

GM should obviously cover occupational-related adverse health effects, but I see no reason that they should continue health insurance for those producing nothing for the company in return.

This was part of the pay/compensation package. They offered it, promoting long term employment. It was effective-GM had the benefit of a lifetime of dedicated labor from thousands of people. When it comes time to pay up, they skip out. BS in my opinion. I can see a lawsuit coming out of this. Papers are probably being filed as I type.

These contracts were written largely when GM held over a 50% market share, oil was $5 a barrel, and America had just put a man on the moon. In other words - completely different times.

If anything, I'm sure GM can declare (here I go mixing legalese again) force majeure on these contracts, basically stating that honoring them would, or rather, has, put GM in the dire financial situation that it now finds itself in.

It's obvious that something has to give, but these GM retirees should count themselves fortunate that they were able to, for their entire working lives, make far-above and beyond what someone with a similar skillset would make in today's marketplace. This reality check has been 50 years in coming.

[hope_full]

It's going to require a new paradigm in American health care though. It's going to require an earnest push to abandon high-tech medicine and rediscover affordable medicine. It's also going to require, I think, that we follow Shakespear's advice vis-a-via malpractice lawyers. The technophilic health care model that the US, and to a lesser extent Europe have been pursuing, really needs to come to an end, and this may be the kind of thing that finally motivates us to make it happen.

I agree 100% with SPGirl. As we speak, my 90-something father is in hospital and the dollars that are flowing to keep him alive stagger the mind. Money is no object in poking and prodding and dosing and drugging his tired old body. I keep asking the old man if he wants to THINK about declining this crazy money-is-no-object, what-new-device-can-we-try-next medical treatment and he's still sound in mind (if not in body) and says, "NO, dammit, I don't want to die."

Well, at some point, his number will be up. And he'll leave behind a staggering debt of medical care that probably tops $300,000 in the last 18 months.

[Cashmere]

I don't have all the facts.

I'm not sure whether there was a lifetime guarantee as part of a contract or not.

In the end, people who are retirees right now don't understand how good they had it - they, by fortune of birth date - lived through the fat part of the Peak Oil curve.

I have nothing else to say about this.